Damascus or damascening?

[AhmedH]

Originally Posted by Raf

I have never been clear about the difference between damascus steel , as in gun barrels where the distinctive pattern emerges from bars of iron of different carbon content which are twisted and forged together, and wootz or crucible steel where the implication is that the pattern is somehow inheirent in the structure of the steel itself . And having read the Anne Feurbach piece I am not any clearer . Surely the differing carbon content of the steel depends on local conditions in the crucible when organic matter is added in order to increase the carbon content of the steel . But I cant see how this results in any pattern , other than that the resulting lump may have odd mixtures of metal of differing carbon content. Surely the patterning only emerges subsequently when the lump is beaten, folded or twisted in order to consolidate the steel and any diserneble pattern is the result of this initial forging. Exported as a ingot for the production of a sword blade one can see how this patterning is passed on to the blade , but also how a more regular , more controlled pattern can also emerge from the way the steel is intentionally manipulated while the blade is forged. Im sure others like me would appreciate some expert clarification.

There seem to be some ingots of suposedly old wootz steel around at the moment . Described as Indo Persian , in the form of fairly regular balls about 20 centimeters diameter and about 1 kilo weight. It would be interesting to section one and etch to see how any pattern , if it exists at all , compares with finished blades . Can't post any images as these are currently for sale.

I believe that you may find this article also somewhat important:

http://materials.iisc.ernet.in/~woot...tage/WOOTZ.htm

[Raf]

Thanks to all. I had done a bit of background reading around the subject, but apparently not enough. What set me of was the observation that all researchers and experimenters trying to re create wootz start with molten iron which is carbonized either by adding charcoal or co fusion with cast iron. Which looks sensible since wootz is crucible steel. Until, that is you read Sir Richard Burtons first hand description of the process. (The book of the sword 1886) Which describes iron, which is first, converted into steel by the cementation process and only subsequently melted to form crucible steel. Subtle difference. Was this an important part of the process that nobody seemed to be looking at? I ran this idea past a contemporary maker of wootz and after a lengthy exchange the conclusion was it was a rubbish idea. It wouldn’t make any difference so it’s back to the science. I had no idea that wootz was such a complicated and emotional issue.

However, before leaving the subject does anybody have an opinion on the probable constitution of this barrel? Its currently loosely attached, in the way they usually are, to a Tibetan matchlock but may well be Persian. We know it’s twist welded but how would you describe the banding? Is it patterning welded, wootz or what?

[ariel]

Of course it is pattern welded. Wootz was never used to manufacture barrels.
Get yourself a book by Manfred Sachse "Damascus Steel"

http://www.amazon.com/Damascus-Steel...manfred+sachse

and it will clarify most, if not all, of your confusions.

[Richard Furrer]

Originally Posted by ariel

Of course it is pattern welded. Wootz was never used to manufacture barrels.
Get yourself a book by Manfred Sachse "Damascus Steel"

http://www.amazon.com/Damascus-Steel...manfred+sachse

and it will clarify most, if not all, of your confusions.

I'd love to see a wootz gun barrel.
I second and third Sachse book.

As usual I am late to the discussion...the sword blade is etched and done in a way to note try too hard to appear as anything different. I have seen some etch jobs which I had to really look at for a while to pick up up.
One modern artist is forging pattern-welded plates and using that to make molds into which he pours bronze. I had to look at his stuff VERY closely as the effect looks great. He does furniture with the technique.


Ric