East Javanese Keris(es) - Discussion

[A. G. Maisey]

#2

Madura is fond of capu kagok as is Solo. This keris doesn't look Solo to me, I think maybe coastal East Jawa, wr. Madura.

#3

mamas SW , complex pamor in light blade, probably Jatim/ Maduro


Post 8, keris #2 and keris #3

not a lot I can say about either of these.

#2 is pretty featureless; in the pics it seems to have a "fallen brick" blumbangan, which looks like about the only indicator I can see; the stain is not wonderful, and this might be material or might be the warangan or might be the lack of skill in the person who did it; top of the gonjo might give a clue, feel of the weight distribution and texture of material might give a clue.
Thinking in terms of major strands of influence, yes, Solo and Madura are both known for this scabbard form, but realistically it could be just about anywhere away from strong direct kraton influence.
The hilt is not Solo work, but it uses a Solo style for a model, it also doesn't strike me as Madura work.

I think I'd opt for "Javanese" only for this one.

#3 presents as a typical Madura blade both stylistically and in respect of pamor; the blumbangan looks to be "brick standing", the luk at the point is fairly longish which is not particularly known as a Madura characteristic, but is accepted as an East Jawa characteristic. Maybe a Madura blade made for East Jawa mainland ?
The scabbard form --- mamas SW --- is strongly associated with East Jawa.

I think I'll stay with my hip shot on this one:- East Jawa/Madura

[Jean]

Thank you Alan and I deeply appreciate your expert analysis as usual.
I have other supposedly East Javanese krisses to show but will leave the floor to others.
BTW do you consider Tuban style blades as Jatim or Jateng?
Best regards

[A. G. Maisey]

Actually Jean, I consider Tuban blades as Tuban:- Tuban is a legit tangguh. This "Jatim"/"jateng" thing is an artificial construct that we're using here because it suits the way the collecting community here thinks, it really has very little --- maybe nothing --- to do with the way Javanese people classify keris.

[Jean]

Originally Posted by A. G. Maisey

Actually Jean, I consider Tuban blades as Tuban:- Tuban is a legit tangguh. This "Jatim"/"jateng" thing is an artificial construct that we're using here because it suits the way the collecting community here thinks, it really has very little --- maybe nothing --- to do with the way Javanese people classify keris.

Hello Alan,
Thanks, very clear and understood.
Regards

[A. G. Maisey]

Post 9

#1

Jateng, Solo and maybe a Koripan wilahan --- can't be positive without physical insp.

post 10

#1

very tempted to give Jatim, wilah might be Pjjrn.:- pamor, boto adeg, but only stylistically and it might look different in the hand.


The keris in post 9 is overall a Solo keris, everything about it is Solo.
I’ve given the blade as possibly Koripan, which is a smithing village between Solo and Jogja. For a very long time the smiths in this village produced rough copies of M’ram SA keris, and very frequently these rough copies get sold as the real thing, ie, Mataram Sultan Agung.

Stylistically a Koripan keris has almost the same features as M’ram SA, but it is more crude and lacks refinement.

However, there are a number of other keris classifications that look very, very similar and it is not always possible to be absolutely certain what one of these generic Mataram blades should be classified as, so it is probably safer to dump them all in one basket and call them “late Mataram”.

I reckon “Surakarta/Late Mataram” is the safest classification for this keris.


Post #10
For the overall keris I’d be happy with just “Jawa”. The wrongko could be anywhere, it doesn’t look like Surakarta work, but it could be, just not under direct kraton influence. Could be East Jawa, could be anywhere in between.
But the blade is a pretty nice example of an older “everyman’s” keris.

The more I look at it the more Pajajaran seems likely, but if it truly is classifiable as Pjjrn., it is in remarkably good condition; it might be a Gresik copy of Pjjrn. You can usually pick Gresik by the pamor which has a greasy feel to it, it doesn’t grip your finger tips like most other pamor does, even though it might be quite worn.

The big fat-like exposure of pamor, the long gandhik, whispy kembang kacang, gonjo style, luk style:- to my eye everything about this blade looks Pjjrn., which of course places it as a West Jawa blade, and in the corresponding period, you could say north coast, so I guess a lot of people would give it as Cirebon these days.

Cirebon has become a popular classification in recent years, but in Solo 30 years ago I never heard it mentioned. At that time it seemed that the focus of all the truly knowledgeable people was on the classic descent of kingdoms classifications(tangguhs) along with the well known copies of these, so mostly if something didn’t quite fit into the guidelines based on Pangeran Wijil’s “Turun Temuruning Para Empu Tanah Jawi” a blade got classified as “diluar Jawa” (outside Jawa) and pretty much disregarded or devalued. Possibly not a logical approach, but we need to remember that everything about keris in Central Jawa is part of a culturally based belief system, if something is outside the culture, it doesn’t count.

A good tell for Pajajaran is the edge of the pamor where it meets the steel core. In a genuine Pjjrn. blade there will be a microscopic separation of steel core and pamor. I use a 3X loupe to see this, its not really possible to see it with the naked eye --- well, its not possible for me, for some others it might be.

I’d be happy with a generic “Jawa” classification for this keris; I’m very tempted to give the blade as Pajaran, but I could not do this unless I handled it.

[Sajen]

Originally Posted by A. G. Maisey

The keris in post 9 is overall a Solo keris, everything about it is Solo.
I’ve given the blade as possibly Koripan, which is a smithing village between Solo and Jogja. For a very long time the smiths in this village produced rough copies of M’ram SA keris, and very frequently these rough copies get sold as the real thing, ie, Mataram Sultan Agung.

Stylistically a Koripan keris has almost the same features as M’ram SA, but it is more crude and lacks refinement.

However, there are a number of other keris classifications that look very, very similar and it is not always possible to be absolutely certain what one of these generic Mataram blades should be classified as, so it is probably safer to dump them all in one basket and call them “late Mataram”.

I reckon “Surakarta/Late Mataram” is the safest classification for this keris.

Also here, thank you very much for the detailed comment. This blade have been every time a a big interrogation mark for me. That it isn't a Mataram SA blade have shown me the lack of refinement so my best guess have been that it is a village made keris from East Java. So the Koripan attribution seems to my eyes nearby. Very very good learning lesson for me.

Regards,

Detlef

[Sajen]

Originally Posted by A. G. Maisey

Post #10
For the overall keris I’d be happy with just “Jawa”. The wrongko could be anywhere, it doesn’t look like Surakarta work, but it could be, just not under direct kraton influence. Could be East Jawa, could be anywhere in between.
But the blade is a pretty nice example of an older “everyman’s” keris.

The more I look at it the more Pajajaran seems likely, but if it truly is classifiable as Pjjrn., it is in remarkably good condition; it might be a Gresik copy of Pjjrn. You can usually pick Gresik by the pamor which has a greasy feel to it, it doesn’t grip your finger tips like most other pamor does, even though it might be quite worn.

The big fat-like exposure of pamor, the long gandhik, whispy kembang kacang, gonjo style, luk style:- to my eye everything about this blade looks Pjjrn., which of course places it as a West Jawa blade, and in the corresponding period, you could say north coast, so I guess a lot of people would give it as Cirebon these days.

Cirebon has become a popular classification in recent years, but in Solo 30 years ago I never heard it mentioned. At that time it seemed that the focus of all the truly knowledgeable people was on the classic descent of kingdoms classifications(tangguhs) along with the well known copies of these, so mostly if something didn’t quite fit into the guidelines based on Pangeran Wijil’s “Turun Temuruning Para Empu Tanah Jawi” a blade got classified as “diluar Jawa” (outside Jawa) and pretty much disregarded or devalued. Possibly not a logical approach, but we need to remember that everything about keris in Central Jawa is part of a culturally based belief system, if something is outside the culture, it doesn’t count.

A good tell for Pajajaran is the edge of the pamor where it meets the steel core. In a genuine Pjjrn. blade there will be a microscopic separation of steel core and pamor. I use a 3X loupe to see this, its not really possible to see it with the naked eye --- well, its not possible for me, for some others it might be.

I’d be happy with a generic “Jawa” classification for this keris; I’m very tempted to give the blade as Pajaran, but I could not do this unless I handled it.

And again, thank you very much for the time you have taken to comment. And also here I have learned something i don't have known before. The separation from pamor and core for a good tell to to attribute a blade to Pajajaran is new for me. This blade have it indeed but not the greasy feel.
So it could be indeed a genuine Pjjrn. blade.
So maybe I should change the hilt by a Cirebon hilt which would fit more better for this keris?

Thank you again,

Detlef