Philippine Insurrection Era Kriss ...or later??

Battara · 2nd January 2013, 07:19 PM

I do think that the separable ganga observations still have weight. The separable ganga probably did not suddenly stop but digressed over time. I still think that most separable gangas on kris died out by the 1930s or a little later. It may either push the date a little later or this example may be an exception to the pattern.

Also Dimasalang has a great point. I have been aware of the attempt from the Republican forces to woe help from the Moros, but seeing a kris on an officer is a new one for me. Thanks for sharing the picture. Hope you do find more information on this man.

Sajen · 2nd January 2013, 07:33 PM

Very interesting kris and interesting discussion.

What nobody mentioned until now: is this kris worked for a lefthanding person?

Regards,

Detlef

CharlesS · 2nd January 2013, 09:53 PM

I agree Battara that pic is a mind blower!

Sajen, yes this was apparently for a left hander.

David · 3rd January 2013, 01:24 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CharlesS

Sajen, yes this was apparently for a left hander.

I'm not sure that is necessarily so. Look at how these two Moro warriors wear their kris with the "elephant trunk" side of the blade facing upwards.

Bangkaya · 3rd January 2013, 03:48 AM

The ukkil on the seki kura hilt and on the scabbard looks Sulu...I'm leaning towards Yakan and not Tausug.

The orientation on how a kris or kalis is worn (whether "tachi" or "katana" style) is dependent on the owner, but more importantly the style of silat he practices...not which side of the scabbard is fancier.

Regards,
Bangkaya

Rick · 3rd January 2013, 03:53 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bangkaya

The ukkil on the seki kura hilt and on the scabbard looks Sulu...I'm leaning towards Yakan and not Tausug.

The orientation on how a kris or kalis is worn (whether "tachi" or "katana" style) is dependent on the owner, but more importantly the style of silat he practices...not which side of the scabbard is fancier.

Regards,
Bangkaya

This begs the question :
Did the old-timers even refer to their fighting technique as Silat ?

Bangkaya · 3rd January 2013, 04:18 AM

Rick,
Not necessarily. But in Sulu the fighting art there is what most people would call silat and there are several different family systems there. Much like in the Visayas and Luzon the fighting arts there are lumped together as arnis, eskrima, and kali....although there are many different systems there as well. Many of the old time eskrimadors or anisadors didn't even call it arnis, eskrima, or kali....just whatever they wanted to call it. But there is a difference between the Bangsamoro fighting arts and the Filipino martial arts. Where the Filipino fighting arts are purely Filipino in origin (with maybe slight Spanish influence) the Bangsamoro fighting arts has its origins or rather influence from the Indo/Malay fighting arts of silat. As a practioner of both arts of eskrima and silat, I can definitely say there is a big difference, but its hard to explain to non-practitioners of either arts.

Regards,
Bangkaya

David · 3rd January 2013, 03:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bangkaya

The orientation on how a kris or kalis is worn (whether "tachi" or "katana" style) is dependent on the owner, but more importantly the style of silat he practices...not which side of the scabbard is fancier.

And which style uses the orientation i provided in these images? Personally i prefer this draw as it brings the blade out of the scabbard in a manner that positions it for a strong downward cut.

Bangkaya · 3rd January 2013, 10:03 PM

David,
Sorry I can't be specific since most of the silat systems within Bangsamoro are family sytems with no specific names and just referred to as just "silat" and most often is not taught outside the clan. There are as many different silat systems within the Bangsamoro arts as there are different forms of eskrima, arnis, or kali within the Filipino martial arts (FMA.) Though FMA has more exposure worldwide and many different systems are quite known and taught worldwide, the silat arts of Bangsamoro are not as well known because it is rarely if ever taught to outsiders of the clan.

I suggest we get back to the subject of this thread before it digresses to silat thread which I wish to avoid.

Regards,
Bangkaya

2nd January 2013, 07:19 PM	#1
Battara EAAF Staff Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Louisville, KY Posts: 7,308	I do think that the separable ganga observations still have weight. The separable ganga probably did not suddenly stop but digressed over time. I still think that most separable gangas on kris died out by the 1930s or a little later. It may either push the date a little later or this example may be an exception to the pattern. Also Dimasalang has a great point. I have been aware of the attempt from the Republican forces to woe help from the Moros, but seeing a kris on an officer is a new one for me. Thanks for sharing the picture. Hope you do find more information on this man. Last edited by Battara; 2nd January 2013 at 07:34 PM.

2nd January 2013, 07:33 PM	#2
Sajen Member Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Germany, Dortmund Posts: 9,270	Very interesting kris and interesting discussion. What nobody mentioned until now: is this kris worked for a lefthanding person? Regards, Detlef Last edited by Sajen; 2nd January 2013 at 10:31 PM.

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2nd January 2013, 09:53 PM	#3
CharlesS Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Greenville, NC Posts: 1,854	I agree Battara that pic is a mind blower! Sajen, yes this was apparently for a left hander.

3rd January 2013, 03:48 AM	#5
Bangkaya Member Join Date: Oct 2012 Posts: 38	The ukkil on the seki kura hilt and on the scabbard looks Sulu...I'm leaning towards Yakan and not Tausug. The orientation on how a kris or kalis is worn (whether "tachi" or "katana" style) is dependent on the owner, but more importantly the style of silat he practices...not which side of the scabbard is fancier. Regards, Bangkaya

3rd January 2013, 04:18 AM	#7
Bangkaya Member Join Date: Oct 2012 Posts: 38	Rick, Not necessarily. But in Sulu the fighting art there is what most people would call silat and there are several different family systems there. Much like in the Visayas and Luzon the fighting arts there are lumped together as arnis, eskrima, and kali....although there are many different systems there as well. Many of the old time eskrimadors or anisadors didn't even call it arnis, eskrima, or kali....just whatever they wanted to call it. But there is a difference between the Bangsamoro fighting arts and the Filipino martial arts. Where the Filipino fighting arts are purely Filipino in origin (with maybe slight Spanish influence) the Bangsamoro fighting arts has its origins or rather influence from the Indo/Malay fighting arts of silat. As a practioner of both arts of eskrima and silat, I can definitely say there is a big difference, but its hard to explain to non-practitioners of either arts. Regards, Bangkaya

3rd January 2013, 10:03 PM	#9
Bangkaya Member Join Date: Oct 2012 Posts: 38	David, Sorry I can't be specific since most of the silat systems within Bangsamoro are family sytems with no specific names and just referred to as just "silat" and most often is not taught outside the clan. There are as many different silat systems within the Bangsamoro arts as there are different forms of eskrima, arnis, or kali within the Filipino martial arts (FMA.) Though FMA has more exposure worldwide and many different systems are quite known and taught worldwide, the silat arts of Bangsamoro are not as well known because it is rarely if ever taught to outsiders of the clan. I suggest we get back to the subject of this thread before it digresses to silat thread which I wish to avoid. Regards, Bangkaya