Keris - javanese blade in Kedah mounts?

Henk · 12th December 2012, 01:20 PM

Alan,

I'm very glad with your explanation. You put it just in the way what i have in my mind. I completeley agree with you.
Your skills and education in keris as your native tongue can nail this issue way better down than i can. If i have to write down what you did it would take me a lot of time more. Time is at the moment very limited for me.

I was a bit short in my answer and i'm very glad you gave the arguments i should have done.

Gustav · 12th December 2012, 10:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Henk

Alan,

I'm very glad with your explanation. You put it just in the way what i have in my mind. I completeley agree with you.

I was a bit short in my answer and i'm very glad you gave the arguments i should have done.

Henk, if this is so: I would be very thankful, if you could find some more time and comment on this blade, which also looks Javanese and also is mounted in Kedah dress. I would much appreciate your oppinion, put in a few necessary words.

kai · 13th December 2012, 08:06 AM

Hello Gustav,

Nice.

Looks again like a locally crafted blade to me.

Sorry for coming back to this thread late - will add more comments later. Please add a few pics of the whole keris for future reference, too.

Regards,
Kai

A. G. Maisey · 13th December 2012, 08:16 AM

Gustav, is it possible to provide a clearer image of the greneng?

Gustav · 13th December 2012, 09:05 AM

Kai, Alan, thank you for your answers. This Keris is not mine, it's depicted in both Jensens book and Krisdisk (chapter 10, page 32). Length of the blade 36,6 cm. Unfortunately no better pictures of Grenend there.

A. G. Maisey · 13th December 2012, 11:37 AM

Thanks Gustav. Yes, I see what you mean.

T. Koch · 17th December 2012, 05:12 PM

Detlef, thank you for the picture. I'm duly aware that the interstitial zone of hippo tusks sometimes produce dark inclusions along the lateral margins, but similar "spots in a row" can be found in other types of ivory: The inner cementum of walrus or longitudinally along deep age cracks in tusks of the proboscids, for example. I was just hoping that maybe you had an academic reference up your sleeve to tie them to the hippo.

In general I think one should exercise care in assigning a source species to any ivory based on one character alone. -this goes x10 when we're doing it from photographs of course.

I can recommend the article "Unusual appearance of Schreger-like pattern in Hippopotamus amphibius ivory" (Simms, 2010). -I don't agree with their conclusions, but their findings illustrate this point very well.

Best wishes, - Thor

13th December 2012, 08:06 AM	#3
kai Member Join Date: Apr 2005 Posts: 3,255	Needed to flip the pics to view keris in standard orientation... ;) Hello Gustav, Nice. Looks again like a locally crafted blade to me. Sorry for coming back to this thread late - will add more comments later. Please add a few pics of the whole keris for future reference, too. Regards, Kai Attached Images

13th December 2012, 09:05 AM	#5
Gustav Member Join Date: Jun 2009 Posts: 1,295	Kai, Alan, thank you for your answers. This Keris is not mine, it's depicted in both Jensens book and Krisdisk (chapter 10, page 32). Length of the blade 36,6 cm. Unfortunately no better pictures of Grenend there. Attached Images

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12th December 2012, 01:20 PM	#1
Henk Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: The Netherlands Posts: 1,209	Alan, I'm very glad with your explanation. You put it just in the way what i have in my mind. I completeley agree with you. Your skills and education in keris as your native tongue can nail this issue way better down than i can. If i have to write down what you did it would take me a lot of time more. Time is at the moment very limited for me. I was a bit short in my answer and i'm very glad you gave the arguments i should have done.

13th December 2012, 08:16 AM	#4
A. G. Maisey Member Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 7,048	Gustav, is it possible to provide a clearer image of the greneng?

13th December 2012, 11:37 AM	#6
A. G. Maisey Member Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 7,048	Thanks Gustav. Yes, I see what you mean.

17th December 2012, 05:12 PM	#7
T. Koch Member Join Date: Jul 2012 Location: Mother North Posts: 189	Detlef, thank you for the picture. I'm duly aware that the interstitial zone of hippo tusks sometimes produce dark inclusions along the lateral margins, but similar "spots in a row" can be found in other types of ivory: The inner cementum of walrus or longitudinally along deep age cracks in tusks of the proboscids, for example. I was just hoping that maybe you had an academic reference up your sleeve to tie them to the hippo. In general I think one should exercise care in assigning a source species to any ivory based on one character alone. -this goes x10 when we're doing it from photographs of course. I can recommend the article "Unusual appearance of Schreger-like pattern in Hippopotamus amphibius ivory" (Simms, 2010). -I don't agree with their conclusions, but their findings illustrate this point very well. Best wishes, - Thor