Japanese matchlock Teppo

trenchwarfare · 5th December 2012, 04:46 PM

Very interesting piece. I own five, and have owned a few more. Have yet to get my hands on a "carbine" length example. There are only two modern publications on the subject, that I know of. Volumes one and two of "The Japanese Matchlock -A story of the Tanegashima-" By Shigea Sugawa. Volume 1 is in English, the other in Japanese. There are some older books available, but they are all in Japanese, and quite expensive.
Given the simplicity of construction, and crudeness of decoration, I'd guess that your gun is either a gunsmiths early attenpt, or something made for the tourist trade. It does show signs of long term use. Whatever it is, I like it!
I'll see if I can come with more info.

Cerjak · 5th December 2012, 06:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by trenchwarfare

Very interesting piece. I own five, and have owned a few more. Have yet to get my hands on a "carbine" length example. There are only two modern publications on the subject, that I know of. Volumes one and two of "The Japanese Matchlock -A story of the Tanegashima-" By Shigea Sugawa. Volume 1 is in English, the other in Japanese. There are some older books available, but they are all in Japanese, and quite expensive.
Given the simplicity of construction, and crudeness of decoration, I'd guess that your gun is either a gunsmiths early attenpt, or something made for the tourist trade. It does show signs of long term use. Whatever it is, I like it!
I'll see if I can come with more info.

Many thank for your help I will try to find this book in english .
I have with my teppo an expert appraisal from b.croissy ( French well know expert ) who says that it is a XIX century period so I hope it is a good one.
If you have some pictures from yours I will be happy to see them.
Best regards
CERJAK

T. Koch · 5th December 2012, 06:17 PM

Wow, what an awesome gun! I really like it's lines and flow. It's also cool to see the Japanese minimalist aesthetics expressed in some of it parts, the cock for instance. Thanks for sharing it!

Take care, - Thor

estcrh · 5th December 2012, 07:29 PM

Cerjak, is the barrel bolt (bisen) removable?

Here is a link to Shigeo Sugawa's website, he has a lot of usefull information and pictures, you can purchase his book directly through his site by contacting him, the email address is on his site.
http://www.japaneseweapons.net/hinaw...ui/english.htm

fearn · 6th December 2012, 12:02 AM

I have an off-the-wall question, for a project I'm working on: did the japanese have any bronze or brass-barreled matchlocks?

Thanks in advance,

F

estcrh · 19th June 2016, 03:58 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by fearn

I have an off-the-wall question, for a project I'm working on: did the japanese have any bronze or brass-barreled matchlocks? Thanks in advance, F

While looking at this thread I realized that I answered wrong here

Quote:

Originally Posted by estcrh

Fearn, as far as I know all there were no brass/bronze tanegashima, but the Japanese did cast small brass/bronze cannon with were ignited by hand.

There are actually quite a few bronze barreled Japanese matchlock pistols. Below are two examples, one is basically a hand cannon with little decoration, the other is a smaller caliber with a highly decorated barrel.

rickystl · 19th June 2016, 04:41 PM

Hi Cerjak.

That is a nice looking carbine length Teppo. Congrats.
As far as the breech bolt removal, I was about to recommend Kroil oil. (best I've used). But I see you have already accomplised the removal. Great !!
What we normally associate with a breech plug is a shorter length plug with fine threads that tightens against the breech face of the barrel somewhat similar to a wheel lug of an automobile.
Rather, in the case of Teppo barrels, they use a bolt (better term in this case) with coarse threads, and longer length. The flat face of the bolt simply meets the breech flush. The bolt head is then held firm in the snug fitting hole in the stock. Actually, a clever design. While unusual, it does in fact work. I've never had an issue while firing mine.
Again. congrats. A nice piece.
Rick.

rickystl · 19th June 2016, 05:01 PM

While on this subject, this might be a good time to pose a question about these Teppo's that is still a mystery to me. That being the design of the front and rear sights. Especially the rear.

First the rear site: On the top there is a very thin slot with a partially drilled hole. On the side there is a hole that runs horizontal through the width of the sight. This one horizontal hole seems to be common on every Teppo I've seen.

Front sight: Again, a partially drilled vertical hole (like the rear sight) is present, along with a slot.

It seems that both sights were designed for some type of additional attachements. But I have no idea what it would be. Any ideas about this?

Here are pics of the rear sight:

Cerjak · 6th December 2012, 08:56 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by estcrh

Cerjak, is the barrel bolt (bisen) removable?

Here is a link to Shigeo Sugawa's website, he has a lot of usefull information and pictures, you can purchase his book directly through his site by contacting him, the email address is on his site.
http://www.japaneseweapons.net/hinaw...ui/english.htm

Cerjak
Very good website ,a lot of information on it !
About this barrel ‘s square bolt it seems that it could be removable but it is rusty and there is a kind of black protective paint I Guess against the rust so It will be hard to remove it and I would be worry to do it.
But tell me more about those bolts are they always removable?
Regards

trenchwarfare · 6th December 2012, 05:24 PM

Most of my breach-plugs, can be removed with the fingers. Sometimes a large nail, or similar metal rod is needed. Sounds like yours has been sealed against moisture. One more thing, always check old muzzle loaders, to see if they are loaded. At least 1/3 of the ones I have handled over the years, were. Drop the ram-rod down the barrel, and then mark it to see how deep it goes. Should go at least to the touch hole.

bluelake · 7th December 2012, 11:38 PM

Look at Tanegashima--The Arrival of Europe in Japan, by Olof Lidin. It's the story of the matchlock in Japan.

Cerjak · 8th December 2012, 08:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bluelake

Look at Tanegashima--The Arrival of Europe in Japan, by Olof Lidin. It's the story of the matchlock in Japan.

Thank you for your advice

Regards

Cerjak

Cerjak · 8th December 2012, 08:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by trenchwarfare

Most of my breach-plugs, can be removed with the fingers. Sometimes a large nail, or similar metal rod is needed. Sounds like yours has been sealed against moisture. One more thing, always check old muzzle loaders, to see if they are loaded. At least 1/3 of the ones I have handled over the years, were. Drop the ram-rod down the barrel, and then mark it to see how deep it goes. Should go at least to the touch hole.

I have check and didn't find any bullet inside .
Many thanks

Cerjak

5th December 2012, 07:29 PM	#4
estcrh Member Join Date: Jun 2012 Location: USA Posts: 1,492	Cerjak, is the barrel bolt (bisen) removable? Here is a link to Shigeo Sugawa's website, he has a lot of usefull information and pictures, you can purchase his book directly through his site by contacting him, the email address is on his site. http://www.japaneseweapons.net/hinaw...ui/english.htm Attached Images Last edited by estcrh; 5th December 2012 at 07:41 PM.

19th June 2016, 05:01 PM	#8
rickystl Member Join Date: Jul 2010 Location: St. Louis, MO area. Posts: 1,632	While on this subject, this might be a good time to pose a question about these Teppo's that is still a mystery to me. That being the design of the front and rear sights. Especially the rear. First the rear site: On the top there is a very thin slot with a partially drilled hole. On the side there is a hole that runs horizontal through the width of the sight. This one horizontal hole seems to be common on every Teppo I've seen. Front sight: Again, a partially drilled vertical hole (like the rear sight) is present, along with a slot. It seems that both sights were designed for some type of additional attachements. But I have no idea what it would be. Any ideas about this? Here are pics of the rear sight: Attached Images

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5th December 2012, 04:46 PM	#1
trenchwarfare Member Join Date: Oct 2008 Posts: 385	Very interesting piece. I own five, and have owned a few more. Have yet to get my hands on a "carbine" length example. There are only two modern publications on the subject, that I know of. Volumes one and two of "The Japanese Matchlock -A story of the Tanegashima-" By Shigea Sugawa. Volume 1 is in English, the other in Japanese. There are some older books available, but they are all in Japanese, and quite expensive. Given the simplicity of construction, and crudeness of decoration, I'd guess that your gun is either a gunsmiths early attenpt, or something made for the tourist trade. It does show signs of long term use. Whatever it is, I like it! I'll see if I can come with more info.

5th December 2012, 06:17 PM	#3
T. Koch Member Join Date: Jul 2012 Location: Mother North Posts: 189	Wow, what an awesome gun! I really like it's lines and flow. It's also cool to see the Japanese minimalist aesthetics expressed in some of it parts, the cock for instance. Thanks for sharing it! Take care, - Thor

6th December 2012, 12:02 AM	#5
fearn Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 1,247	I have an off-the-wall question, for a project I'm working on: did the japanese have any bronze or brass-barreled matchlocks? Thanks in advance, F

19th June 2016, 04:41 PM	#7
rickystl Member Join Date: Jul 2010 Location: St. Louis, MO area. Posts: 1,632	Hi Cerjak. That is a nice looking carbine length Teppo. Congrats. As far as the breech bolt removal, I was about to recommend Kroil oil. (best I've used). But I see you have already accomplised the removal. Great !! What we normally associate with a breech plug is a shorter length plug with fine threads that tightens against the breech face of the barrel somewhat similar to a wheel lug of an automobile. Rather, in the case of Teppo barrels, they use a bolt (better term in this case) with coarse threads, and longer length. The flat face of the bolt simply meets the breech flush. The bolt head is then held firm in the snug fitting hole in the stock. Actually, a clever design. While unusual, it does in fact work. I've never had an issue while firing mine. Again. congrats. A nice piece. Rick.

6th December 2012, 05:24 PM	#10
trenchwarfare Member Join Date: Oct 2008 Posts: 385	Most of my breach-plugs, can be removed with the fingers. Sometimes a large nail, or similar metal rod is needed. Sounds like yours has been sealed against moisture. One more thing, always check old muzzle loaders, to see if they are loaded. At least 1/3 of the ones I have handled over the years, were. Drop the ram-rod down the barrel, and then mark it to see how deep it goes. Should go at least to the touch hole.

7th December 2012, 11:38 PM	#11
bluelake Member Join Date: Oct 2009 Location: Gyeongsan, South Korea Posts: 57	Look at Tanegashima--The Arrival of Europe in Japan, by Olof Lidin. It's the story of the matchlock in Japan.