New Sword

zelbone · 8th September 2005, 09:25 AM

Interesting sword....

It has all the characteristics of a Visayan sword, but where in the Visayas is a good question. If you look at the sword as a whole (blade, hilt, and scabbard) it appears to be a Visayan sword. However, if you analyze each part, then the sword looks like it was pieced together from different regions in the Visayas. Confused? I'll explain...

First, let's look at the blade. Andrew is correct that the blade does have a vague talibon appearance. In fact calling this a talibon or talibong would be acceptable since the term is a generic name for a fighting sword throughout the Visayas. The narrow ricasso is typical, while the blade widens towards the point. Also, the offset angle of the tang at almost 45 degrees is typical. This puts most of the weight of the blade towards the end making this a formidable chopper. The single bevel is also typical for a Visayan blade. Blades with these features are usually found on Leyte, Samar, and Cebu while the blades from Panay and Negros usually have wider ricassos with very little to no offset of the tang....there are those rare exceptions. But by looking at just the blade and the striking resemblence to the typical "talibon" blade, it appears that the blade is most likely from Leyte or Samar...maybe even Cebu.

Next, let's look at the hilt. The hilt is a rather plain figural hilt. It isn't the typical Ilongo deity form or the Aklanon/Capiz deity form found on a Sanduko. Actually, figural hilts are quite common all over the Visayas....from Panay to Bohol. Figural hilts can be found on talibons, binangons, sundangs, sandukos, etc. The hilt really isn't much of a good indicator to the origin of this piece. However, the lack of a metal ferrule eliminates it from being an Ilongo piece (Eastern Panay/Negros Occidental.) The thin ratan band is mainly decorative which again is more consitent with pieces from Leyte, Samar, and Cebu. However, you will see this on a few sandukos and talibongs from Aklan,Capiz, and Antique IF there isn't a guard present.

Finally, lets look at the scabbard. This is the part of the sword that is really confusing. First off, it lacks a leather throat piece typical of Ilongo scabbards. Also, the scabbard isn't completely straight and squared off like most Ilongo scabbards. This scabbard, however, shows more Aklanon/Capiz traits with the curled-up toe. This can be seen on the Sanduko scabbards where the toe turns-up to almost a 90 degree angle. Even recently made talibong scabbards from Aklan have this feature. Scabbards from the Eastern Visayas (Leyte, Samar, Cebu) usually have scabbards that taper with the form of the blade and the toes of the scabbard usually turn up, but not that drastically as those from Aklan and Capiz. Looking at the just the shape of the scabbard, I would assume it was from Aklan or Capiz in Panay. But to add to the confusion even more is the way the hanger is set up. On this scabbard, it looks as if the top face of the scabbard was drilled through so a rope belt can be lashed on. This is usually seen on swords from Luzon and not the Visayas. In the Visayas a hanger block is usually carved out very prominantly and is drilled through. In Aklan and Capiz, the hanger block is slotted and not drilled through. As for the monkey skull, it looks more like a later add on. It actually looks like something you would see on an Igorot piece or other highland Luzon tribe. However, my sister did see a few bolos in Aklan that sported monkey skulls on their scabbards. I know she isn't lying since she wouldn't pick me up one since she's a member of PETA and is such a tree-hugging hippy that buying me a bolo with a monkey skull on the scabbard would be immoral to her. Well I didn't see any when I was there, but I did pick up a talibon with beetle wings on the scabbard. So where is the scabbard from? Good question, but it looks Aklanon to me.

So where in the Visayas is this sword from? We can rule out Negros Occidental and Iloilo province on Panay which leaves us with a lot of territory in the Visayas. My guess would be Leyte based on just the blade, but I would guess Aklan or Capiz by just the scabbard. The sword is definately old and unique. Finally, I'll throw out another possibility...Mindanao. Not from the native Lumad tribes, but from the number of Visayan immigrants that settled there. This sword could be from around Ozamis, Cagayan de Oro, Iligan, Butuan, etc. There are a number of Visayans living in Mindanao that may explain those oddball swords with both Lumad and Visayan features...something else to think about.

Bill · 8th September 2005, 01:49 PM

here is a shot in the dark-Siquijor, located to the south of Negros, Cebu, & Bohol & north of Mindanao. The island of witches, still practiced today. The people are still known for demon images & monkey skulls.

Spunjer · 9th September 2005, 12:53 PM

hmm... a LuzViMinda sword.

bill, good point on the Siquijor angle.

themorningstar · 9th September 2005, 02:06 PM

it's a sundang....

Spunjer · 10th September 2005, 01:43 PM

robert,

the twine that binds the skull to the scabbard: what is it made out of? is it reed or plastic?

Robert · 10th September 2005, 10:08 PM

Spunjer,
The skull itself has a woven cord that seems to be made of ratan that holds it together as well as forming a loop for carring or hanging it, but that is not what holds it to the scabbard. It is tied to the scabbard by what looks like grass, reed, or some form of leaf fiber. There is no plastic on this anywhere.

Zel,
The hole in the top of the scabbard looks like it was drilled in from the front with the point of a knife. It also has the same type hole in the rear half of the scabbard that is inline with the hole in the front half. I thought this hole was more for hanging on a peg when not being worn than as a way of hanging it for wear as is would interfere with the sword being drawn from the scabbard. I believe the carved area on the front of the scabbard a few inches below the top where a small piece is broken away is where it would have been attached to a rope belt or possibly worn under a sash. I'm thinking that the missing piece might have been tang shaped and extended downwards toward the dome shape you see right above the skull. Then the belt or sash would slip between the dome and the end of the tang and slide upwards under the tang so the scabbard would be safely secured. I am only guessing as I really have no idea on how it was actually worn. My thanks to everyone so far in helping to identify this piece.

Robert

Spunjer · 4th October 2005, 02:17 AM

notice the similarity of the scabbard:

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll...MEWA%3AIT&rd=1

10th September 2005, 10:08 PM	#6
Robert (deceased) Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Centerville, Kansas Posts: 2,196	Spunjer, The skull itself has a woven cord that seems to be made of ratan that holds it together as well as forming a loop for carring or hanging it, but that is not what holds it to the scabbard. It is tied to the scabbard by what looks like grass, reed, or some form of leaf fiber. There is no plastic on this anywhere. Zel, The hole in the top of the scabbard looks like it was drilled in from the front with the point of a knife. It also has the same type hole in the rear half of the scabbard that is inline with the hole in the front half. I thought this hole was more for hanging on a peg when not being worn than as a way of hanging it for wear as is would interfere with the sword being drawn from the scabbard. I believe the carved area on the front of the scabbard a few inches below the top where a small piece is broken away is where it would have been attached to a rope belt or possibly worn under a sash. I'm thinking that the missing piece might have been tang shaped and extended downwards toward the dome shape you see right above the skull. Then the belt or sash would slip between the dome and the end of the tang and slide upwards under the tang so the scabbard would be safely secured. I am only guessing as I really have no idea on how it was actually worn. My thanks to everyone so far in helping to identify this piece. Robert Last edited by Robert Coleman; 11th September 2005 at 02:51 AM.

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8th September 2005, 09:25 AM	#1
zelbone Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: VISAYAS and MINDANAO Posts: 169	Interesting sword.... It has all the characteristics of a Visayan sword, but where in the Visayas is a good question. If you look at the sword as a whole (blade, hilt, and scabbard) it appears to be a Visayan sword. However, if you analyze each part, then the sword looks like it was pieced together from different regions in the Visayas. Confused? I'll explain... First, let's look at the blade. Andrew is correct that the blade does have a vague talibon appearance. In fact calling this a talibon or talibong would be acceptable since the term is a generic name for a fighting sword throughout the Visayas. The narrow ricasso is typical, while the blade widens towards the point. Also, the offset angle of the tang at almost 45 degrees is typical. This puts most of the weight of the blade towards the end making this a formidable chopper. The single bevel is also typical for a Visayan blade. Blades with these features are usually found on Leyte, Samar, and Cebu while the blades from Panay and Negros usually have wider ricassos with very little to no offset of the tang....there are those rare exceptions. But by looking at just the blade and the striking resemblence to the typical "talibon" blade, it appears that the blade is most likely from Leyte or Samar...maybe even Cebu. Next, let's look at the hilt. The hilt is a rather plain figural hilt. It isn't the typical Ilongo deity form or the Aklanon/Capiz deity form found on a Sanduko. Actually, figural hilts are quite common all over the Visayas....from Panay to Bohol. Figural hilts can be found on talibons, binangons, sundangs, sandukos, etc. The hilt really isn't much of a good indicator to the origin of this piece. However, the lack of a metal ferrule eliminates it from being an Ilongo piece (Eastern Panay/Negros Occidental.) The thin ratan band is mainly decorative which again is more consitent with pieces from Leyte, Samar, and Cebu. However, you will see this on a few sandukos and talibongs from Aklan,Capiz, and Antique IF there isn't a guard present. Finally, lets look at the scabbard. This is the part of the sword that is really confusing. First off, it lacks a leather throat piece typical of Ilongo scabbards. Also, the scabbard isn't completely straight and squared off like most Ilongo scabbards. This scabbard, however, shows more Aklanon/Capiz traits with the curled-up toe. This can be seen on the Sanduko scabbards where the toe turns-up to almost a 90 degree angle. Even recently made talibong scabbards from Aklan have this feature. Scabbards from the Eastern Visayas (Leyte, Samar, Cebu) usually have scabbards that taper with the form of the blade and the toes of the scabbard usually turn up, but not that drastically as those from Aklan and Capiz. Looking at the just the shape of the scabbard, I would assume it was from Aklan or Capiz in Panay. But to add to the confusion even more is the way the hanger is set up. On this scabbard, it looks as if the top face of the scabbard was drilled through so a rope belt can be lashed on. This is usually seen on swords from Luzon and not the Visayas. In the Visayas a hanger block is usually carved out very prominantly and is drilled through. In Aklan and Capiz, the hanger block is slotted and not drilled through. As for the monkey skull, it looks more like a later add on. It actually looks like something you would see on an Igorot piece or other highland Luzon tribe. However, my sister did see a few bolos in Aklan that sported monkey skulls on their scabbards. I know she isn't lying since she wouldn't pick me up one since she's a member of PETA and is such a tree-hugging hippy that buying me a bolo with a monkey skull on the scabbard would be immoral to her. Well I didn't see any when I was there, but I did pick up a talibon with beetle wings on the scabbard. So where is the scabbard from? Good question, but it looks Aklanon to me. So where in the Visayas is this sword from? We can rule out Negros Occidental and Iloilo province on Panay which leaves us with a lot of territory in the Visayas. My guess would be Leyte based on just the blade, but I would guess Aklan or Capiz by just the scabbard. The sword is definately old and unique. Finally, I'll throw out another possibility...Mindanao. Not from the native Lumad tribes, but from the number of Visayan immigrants that settled there. This sword could be from around Ozamis, Cagayan de Oro, Iligan, Butuan, etc. There are a number of Visayans living in Mindanao that may explain those oddball swords with both Lumad and Visayan features...something else to think about.

8th September 2005, 01:49 PM	#2
Bill Member Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Chicago area Posts: 327	here is a shot in the dark-Siquijor, located to the south of Negros, Cebu, & Bohol & north of Mindanao. The island of witches, still practiced today. The people are still known for demon images & monkey skulls.

9th September 2005, 12:53 PM	#3
Spunjer Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Witness Protection Program Posts: 1,730	hmm... a LuzViMinda sword. bill, good point on the Siquijor angle.

9th September 2005, 02:06 PM	#4
themorningstar Member Join Date: Jan 2005 Posts: 55	it's a sundang....

10th September 2005, 01:43 PM	#5
Spunjer Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Witness Protection Program Posts: 1,730	robert, the twine that binds the skull to the scabbard: what is it made out of? is it reed or plastic?

4th October 2005, 02:17 AM	#7
Spunjer Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Witness Protection Program Posts: 1,730	notice the similarity of the scabbard: http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll...MEWA%3AIT&rd=1