Recently made Omani Kattara / Saif

[David]

As for the other question at hand, i admittedly know very little about these swords, but to my untrained eye i cannot see how the hilts on these so-called "dance swords" would be at all practical in a battle situation. Not only is there no cross piece to protect the hand, but also no pommel of any substance to keep the blade from slipping out of the hand in the heat of battle.

[Iain]

Originally Posted by David

As for the other question at hand, i admittedly know very little about these swords, but to my untrained eye i cannot see how the hilts on these so-called "dance swords" would be at all practical in a battle situation. Not only is there no cross piece to protect the hand, but also no pommel of any substance to keep the blade from slipping out of the hand in the heat of battle.

Same set up can be seen on a variety of other swords, biggest example would be Manding sabres. That's not to say I claim to know the function of the Omani sayf, but the configuration isn't necessarily something that makes it entirely impractical as a weapon.

As for the other issue of rehilting... I have always maintained we should preserve what comes into our possession. When you are putting something entirely new onto a piece, rather than preserving what exists, or carefully restoring missing pieces to an already existing hilt, it ceases to be restoration.

[Ibrahiim al Balooshi]

Originally Posted by Iain

Same set up can be seen on a variety of other swords, biggest example would be Manding sabres. That's not to say I claim to know the function of the Omani sayf, but the configuration isn't necessarily something that makes it entirely impractical as a weapon.

As for the other issue of rehilting... I have always maintained we should preserve what comes into our possession. When you are putting something entirely new onto a piece, rather than preserving what exists, or carefully restoring missing pieces to an already existing hilt, it ceases to be restoration.

Salaams Iain ~ I agree however Iconization is an ongoing process since this is living history through the Funoon...The tradition. It is entirely acceptable in this country to add a royal hilt to an old battle sword . In our case we either silver adorn the old hilt or in the case of a rehilt retain the remnants intact of the old hilt and present that framed alongside the iconized item with a certificate and photos. Taking off the old hilt takes 5 minutes as it is only secured with two rivvets and no damage occurs... Im afraid this line of discussion was kicked off with apparent mischief as the only motivator and I tire of such rediculous diversions by others.

Regards,
Ibrahiim al Balooshi.

[Iain]

Originally Posted by Ibrahiim al Balooshi

Salaams Iain ~ I agree however Iconization is an ongoing process since this is living history through the Funoon...The tradition. It is entirely acceptable in this country to add a royal hilt to an old battle sword . In our case we either silver adorn the old hilt or in the case of a rehilt retain the remnants intact of the old hilt and present that framed alongside the iconized item with a certificate and photos. Taking off the old hilt takes 5 minutes as it is only secured with two rivvets and no damage occurs... Im afraid this line of discussion was kicked off with apparent mischief as the only motivator and I tire of such rediculous diversions by others.

Regards,
Ibrahiim al Balooshi.

Hi Ibrahiim, I'm glad to hear the rehilting is non invasive and in keeping with the traditions of the culture that produced it. I'm on the extreme end of "don't touch anything" with antiques so I have a bit of an allergic reaction to rehilting.

[Ibrahiim al Balooshi]

oops double entry ... see below

[Ibrahiim al Balooshi]

Originally Posted by Iain

Hi Ibrahiim, I'm glad to hear the rehilting is non invasive and in keeping with the traditions of the culture that produced it. I'm on the extreme end of "don't touch anything" with antiques so I have a bit of an allergic reaction to rehilting.

Salaams Iain ~ I completely understand and thank you for your posts which are always constructive and well placed. This is only one of a few hilts I have done including a nice Indian dagger ... However I do a lot of Khanjar hilts that have fallen apart (and anyway they are interchangeable)and we make new Khanjars for the high end UAE market that demands brand new superb quality items. I have a few swords that I wouldnt touch ... they just grow old gracefully and without hilts... so we have a similar outlook.

Regards,
Ibrahiim al Balooshi

[A.alnakkas]

Originally Posted by Ibrahiim al Balooshi

Im afraid this line of discussion was kicked off with apparent mischief as the only motivator and I tire of such rediculous diversions by others.

Regards,
Ibrahiim al Balooshi.

Considering that I was the one that started this discussion, no, mischief was the last thing on my mind and if I would want harm I would have stated my points otherwise. Sorry if it came out that way ;-)

I just like items as they are IF they are complete, I see no point in changing the hilt of a perfectly authentic old battle sword but thanks for clarifying that it wont be invasive. Its interesting that Omani's would iconise those old blades yet do not use them as the heraldic symbol for the Sultanate.

The Omani straight saif and the Kattarah were always the symbols used on Omani tv and I remember how much they play the Raz'ha. Any reason why the old battle saif was kept out of the heraldic symbol?

On the topic I made about the Arabian sword dances, the video that shows King Abdullah dancing; it seems that he is wearing a golden Omani khanjar with the royal hilt!

[A.alnakkas]

Originally Posted by David

As for the other question at hand, i admittedly know very little about these swords, but to my untrained eye i cannot see how the hilts on these so-called "dance swords" would be at all practical in a battle situation. Not only is there no cross piece to protect the hand, but also no pommel of any substance to keep the blade from slipping out of the hand in the heat of battle.

The sword is also used for the Raz'ha which contains a sort of combat practice. Am sure losing grip while doing Raz'ha is equally embarrasing (but less lethal then losing grip in battle..) so the hilt is not really an issue, that also considering that there are other examples of swords with no guard or pommel.

Here is the Raz'ha: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZpfIp_TR_PQ for more context.

[David]

Originally Posted by A.alnakkas

The sword is also used for the Raz'ha which contains a sort of combat practice. Am sure losing grip while doing Raz'ha is equally embarrasing (but less lethal then losing grip in battle..) so the hilt is not really an issue, that also considering that there are other examples of swords with no guard or pommel.

Here is the Raz'ha: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZpfIp_TR_PQ for more context.

Interesting video, but i see nothing here that comes close to the ferocity of real combat. It would indeed be embarrassing if one were to lose grip on the hilt during this dance sequence, even though it is martially based.

[Ibrahiim al Balooshi]

Originally Posted by David

As for the other question at hand, i admittedly know very little about these swords, but to my untrained eye i cannot see how the hilts on these so-called "dance swords" would be at all practical in a battle situation. Not only is there no cross piece to protect the hand, but also no pommel of any substance to keep the blade from slipping out of the hand in the heat of battle.

Salaams David ~ In some ways you are right except of course that the sword never went into battle as it is only a dancing sword... The grip is normally fairly firm and often covered in leather however making it a reasonable grip ... but that does not make it a fighting sword... Never was. I am about to address something interesting on Kattara for comments regarding this general phenomena on the long flexible sword and the old omani battle sword.. regarding the tip.
Regards,
Ibrahiim al Balooshi.

[David]

Originally Posted by Ibrahiim al Balooshi

Salaams David ~ In some ways you are right except of course that the sword never went into battle as it is only a dancing sword...

No Ibrahiim, i am completely right. The point of my post is just that, to support that assertion...