16th/17th century chain shot

M ELEY · 10th November 2011, 12:56 AM

AWESOME!!! Finally, a nod if not absolute proof that these things came in all shapes and sizes. I have several of Neumann'sa books, but none with this illustration. Thank you, my friend!! I'm really attached to these types of specialized naval shot. Yes, I had heard them called 'angels', while the round bar with the flaired ends have another name that slips my mind at the present. Here's one recovered from a military site-
http://images.ourontario.ca/niagarah...1/image/176968

One of this type was on the Pass Cavallo shipwreck in TX and thus, some believe this type of shot was popular with Spahish ships. This opinion was seconded on another site concerning another wreck.

M ELEY · 10th November 2011, 01:34 AM

Speaking of shipwrecks, one of the most informative sources I've yet found are on actual archaeology sites with surviving examples. These papers are like free down-loadable books with exacting information on the length, construction and origin of patterns. For future historians who are interested in this thread, I wanted to attach 3 such sites with info. The first, based on the dive of the French ship Machault (Fernando, you recently posted a pic on another thread about boarding axes with this ship in context). This article by Douglas Brice is long, but absolutely worth it concerning the differing construction (solid cast, cast balls with full bar, etc)-highly recommended.

http://www.sha.org/research_resource...20Machault.pdf

www.history.navy.mil/branches/UA_Penobscot.pdf

http://repository.tamu.edu/bitstream...-Borgens-1.pdf)?sequence=1

Matchlock · 10th November 2011, 01:45 AM

Excellent inputs, guys!

Please hang on!

Best,
Michael

fernando · 10th November 2011, 04:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by M ELEY

...For future historians who are interested in this thread, I wanted to attach 3 such sites with info...

Even not aspiring to be an historian, this material is always precious for one's general culture.
But i also enjoy it in that, being you defending the thesis that barshot shaft cross section is not only square but also round, you are now to deal with it also ... hexagonal

.

... If you don't mind my (Latin) humour

.

.

M ELEY · 11th November 2011, 06:50 AM

Touche, my friend. What's next, a triangular bar? My personal favorite is the deadly 'tiki bar'-

M ELEY · 13th November 2011, 02:07 AM

Sorry, have been away. Actually, Fernando, upon thinking seriously (

)about your comment, you do make an important observation that these things had all different styles and shapes (Neuman has one above that looks like it has door knobs for weights!). I've seen the square bars on the full/half shot types, round bars on expanding bar shot and now octogonal on the type previously mentioned. With such variety, it might be hard to pin-point all the types. I'm going to post pics of mine soon...

M ELEY · 13th November 2011, 01:12 PM

Site deleted/no longer valid. Too bad as it had some interesting barshot, including an alleged "exploding" barshot. Oh well...

M ELEY · 16th November 2011, 02:33 AM

Here goes...
The piece measures 13" long total, ball diameter 11", bar length alone is 6", and bar is 4 1/2" wide. In my defense, this piece is unmarked, made of forged iron with balls braised to the bar. forging flaws are evident. Patina is chocolate brown. A 2 lb and 4lb cannon ball in pic for comparison. The only thing that didn't come out well in the pics is the roundness of the balls. The pics make them look more ovoid, but in real life they are as round as any of the other artillery shot I have. My argument is that this is what barshot looked like toward the mid/late 19th c. Easier to make than the hand-wrought square barred type of the previous century-

Dumbells were typically marked, cast as one piece, just as often made of steel than iron, and didn't have bars this thick or long.

13th November 2011, 01:12 PM	#7
M ELEY Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: NC, U.S.A. Posts: 2,167	Site deleted/no longer valid. Too bad as it had some interesting barshot, including an alleged "exploding" barshot. Oh well... Last edited by M ELEY; 14th November 2011 at 08:36 AM.

16th November 2011, 02:33 AM	#8
M ELEY Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: NC, U.S.A. Posts: 2,167	Here goes... The piece measures 13" long total, ball diameter 11", bar length alone is 6", and bar is 4 1/2" wide. In my defense, this piece is unmarked, made of forged iron with balls braised to the bar. forging flaws are evident. Patina is chocolate brown. A 2 lb and 4lb cannon ball in pic for comparison. The only thing that didn't come out well in the pics is the roundness of the balls. The pics make them look more ovoid, but in real life they are as round as any of the other artillery shot I have. My argument is that this is what barshot looked like toward the mid/late 19th c. Easier to make than the hand-wrought square barred type of the previous century- Dumbells were typically marked, cast as one piece, just as often made of steel than iron, and didn't have bars this thick or long. Attached Images Last edited by M ELEY; 16th November 2011 at 02:45 AM.

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10th November 2011, 12:56 AM	#1
M ELEY Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: NC, U.S.A. Posts: 2,167	AWESOME!!! Finally, a nod if not absolute proof that these things came in all shapes and sizes. I have several of Neumann'sa books, but none with this illustration. Thank you, my friend!! I'm really attached to these types of specialized naval shot. Yes, I had heard them called 'angels', while the round bar with the flaired ends have another name that slips my mind at the present. Here's one recovered from a military site- http://images.ourontario.ca/niagarah...1/image/176968 One of this type was on the Pass Cavallo shipwreck in TX and thus, some believe this type of shot was popular with Spahish ships. This opinion was seconded on another site concerning another wreck.

10th November 2011, 01:34 AM	#2
M ELEY Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: NC, U.S.A. Posts: 2,167	Speaking of shipwrecks, one of the most informative sources I've yet found are on actual archaeology sites with surviving examples. These papers are like free down-loadable books with exacting information on the length, construction and origin of patterns. For future historians who are interested in this thread, I wanted to attach 3 such sites with info. The first, based on the dive of the French ship Machault (Fernando, you recently posted a pic on another thread about boarding axes with this ship in context). This article by Douglas Brice is long, but absolutely worth it concerning the differing construction (solid cast, cast balls with full bar, etc)-highly recommended. http://www.sha.org/research_resource...20Machault.pdf www.history.navy.mil/branches/UA_Penobscot.pdf http://repository.tamu.edu/bitstream...-Borgens-1.pdf)?sequence=1

10th November 2011, 01:45 AM	#3
Matchlock (deceased) Join Date: Sep 2008 Location: Bavaria, Germany - the center of 15th and 16th century gunmaking Posts: 4,310	Excellent inputs, guys! Please hang on! Best, Michael

11th November 2011, 06:50 AM	#5
M ELEY Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: NC, U.S.A. Posts: 2,167	Touche, my friend. What's next, a triangular bar? My personal favorite is the deadly 'tiki bar'-

13th November 2011, 02:07 AM	#6
M ELEY Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: NC, U.S.A. Posts: 2,167	Sorry, have been away. Actually, Fernando, upon thinking seriously ( )about your comment, you do make an important observation that these things had all different styles and shapes (Neuman has one above that looks like it has door knobs for weights!). I've seen the square bars on the full/half shot types, round bars on expanding bar shot and now octogonal on the type previously mentioned. With such variety, it might be hard to pin-point all the types. I'm going to post pics of mine soon...