eBay Toss of the Dice (NEW PICS!)

A. G. Maisey · 20th February 2011, 02:30 AM

OK --- right spot:-

Yes David, I am aware of your high level of knowledge of cultural and historic background in respect of matters affecting the keris, however, although my response is addressed to you, it has been written for all those people who read our discussions here, and many, if not most of those people do not possess a similar level knowledge to yourself.

Yes, collectors do have their own sets of values, which tend to vary according to the base from which that group of collectors has sprung. Very often I find that the values of collectors are directed at the idea and culture of "collecting", rather than the ideas and culture which pertain to the objects that they collect. This remark is not exclusive to the collecting of the keris, but can also be identified in many other fields of collecting.

Regarding the slightly rounded form of the gandhik, I have seen this in a number of keris from both Jawa and Bali, and from various eras. I personally read it as stylistic variation that does not necessarily attach to any particular era or classification, but may be indicative of the work of a particular maker. In fact, in one of the keris that I made myself, I attempted a similar treatment of the gandhik, but it was not particularly successful.

Incidentally, the sogokan in the first keris you have shown from the Oriental Arms source appears to have everything that a well executed sogokan should have. This is very nice work.

David · 20th February 2011, 06:40 AM

Well Alan, i've read a few books. Hardly gives me a high level of knowledge, but enough for some basic understandings.

I am glad that you can see what i was talking about now even if it isn't a clue to anything in particular. Just something i was noticing, but then, as Freud is mused to have said, sometimes a cigar is just a cigar.

And i do agree, that first one from Ari's gallery does indeed have a beautiful sogokan...

A. G. Maisey · 20th February 2011, 07:23 AM

Its better than nice David, its excellent.

Which causes me to think that perhaps the gonjo may have been replaced on this keris. Not recently, but a long time ago, as the fit to the tungkakan is nowhere near the same level of craftsmanship as is displayed in the rest of the sorsoran.

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20th February 2011, 02:30 AM	#1
A. G. Maisey Member Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 7,049	OK --- right spot:- Yes David, I am aware of your high level of knowledge of cultural and historic background in respect of matters affecting the keris, however, although my response is addressed to you, it has been written for all those people who read our discussions here, and many, if not most of those people do not possess a similar level knowledge to yourself. Yes, collectors do have their own sets of values, which tend to vary according to the base from which that group of collectors has sprung. Very often I find that the values of collectors are directed at the idea and culture of "collecting", rather than the ideas and culture which pertain to the objects that they collect. This remark is not exclusive to the collecting of the keris, but can also be identified in many other fields of collecting. Regarding the slightly rounded form of the gandhik, I have seen this in a number of keris from both Jawa and Bali, and from various eras. I personally read it as stylistic variation that does not necessarily attach to any particular era or classification, but may be indicative of the work of a particular maker. In fact, in one of the keris that I made myself, I attempted a similar treatment of the gandhik, but it was not particularly successful. Incidentally, the sogokan in the first keris you have shown from the Oriental Arms source appears to have everything that a well executed sogokan should have. This is very nice work.

20th February 2011, 06:40 AM	#2
David Keris forum moderator Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Nova Scotia Posts: 7,230	Well Alan, i've read a few books. Hardly gives me a high level of knowledge, but enough for some basic understandings. I am glad that you can see what i was talking about now even if it isn't a clue to anything in particular. Just something i was noticing, but then, as Freud is mused to have said, sometimes a cigar is just a cigar. And i do agree, that first one from Ari's gallery does indeed have a beautiful sogokan...

20th February 2011, 07:23 AM	#3
A. G. Maisey Member Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 7,049	Its better than nice David, its excellent. Which causes me to think that perhaps the gonjo may have been replaced on this keris. Not recently, but a long time ago, as the fit to the tungkakan is nowhere near the same level of craftsmanship as is displayed in the rest of the sorsoran.