Translation Assistance Requested for Kaskara Hilt

laEspadaAncha · 10th February 2011, 04:09 AM

Hi Dave,

I wish it was made of ivory.

While not absolutely certain, I am fairly confident it is made of bone... Not only is there no visible (cross-hatched) grain, but there is what appears to be visible (Haversian system) streaking on the undecorated areas of the handle.

Regards,

Chris

A.alnakkas · 10th February 2011, 06:33 AM

Hey

Yes please do rotate it, the word is followed by another letter which i think in a normal script.. it means that it will be followed by the word on top. A zoom on the top word and the letter following Justice will be nice.

Wonderful piece btw

laEspadaAncha · 10th February 2011, 06:15 PM

Hi Abdullatif,

Thank you for the kind words. I have attached below two images, one of the character following "Justice," and another of the word above it. Thanks again for your assistance.

DaveS · 10th February 2011, 08:43 PM

Chris: Yes, looking at it again it probably is bone. Even so, with all the many
kaskaras iv'e seen this is the first that i have seen done in bone, ivory, or
whatever. That sets this sword off as special, at least to me anyway..Dave.

A.alnakkas · 11th February 2011, 12:44 AM

hmm it says : العدل و سد. means: Justice and ???. the second word is "Sad" which means something that blocks. Makes no sense

DaveS · 11th February 2011, 02:40 AM

Chris: Thinking about it again i seem to recall years ago that in one of Fagans
catalogues there was a kaskara with a bone handle. For all we know, this
might be the same one, as some of these pieces do seem to travel around
between collectors..........Dave.

laEspadaAncha · 11th February 2011, 03:00 AM

Hello Dave,

Interesting indeed. I have had an eye out for one for some time, and after reading a fascinating thread here last year (and in particular the contributions by Jim, Tim, and Iain), have been hoping and waiting for one covered in thuluth script (Khartoum is one of my all-time favorite movies). However, luck had not prevailed until this one more-or-less fell into my lap this last month.

It would truly be fortunate to hear form someone who has the catalog in which you seem to recall a similar (or same?) bone-handled kaskara, who could either confirm it is the same one or post pictures of it for comparison.

*****

Abdullatif - Thank you once again for your assistance in translating the inscription. When you say that the contextual use of "sad" refers to "something that blocks," do you mean in the literal sense, or in a more metaphorical sense, i.e., it reverses the meaning of the word or words with which it appears?

Can you think of a loose translation in which "Sad" - or as you state - "something that blocks" along with "Justice" might make sense? Maybe it's a colloquial usage?

*****

Regards,

Chris

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10th February 2011, 04:09 AM	#1
laEspadaAncha Member Join Date: Aug 2006 Posts: 608	Hi Dave, I wish it was made of ivory. While not absolutely certain, I am fairly confident it is made of bone... Not only is there no visible (cross-hatched) grain, but there is what appears to be visible (Haversian system) streaking on the undecorated areas of the handle. Regards, Chris

10th February 2011, 06:33 AM	#2
A.alnakkas Member Join Date: Nov 2010 Location: Kuwait Posts: 1,340	Hey Yes please do rotate it, the word is followed by another letter which i think in a normal script.. it means that it will be followed by the word on top. A zoom on the top word and the letter following Justice will be nice. Wonderful piece btw

10th February 2011, 06:15 PM	#3
laEspadaAncha Member Join Date: Aug 2006 Posts: 608	Hi Abdullatif, Thank you for the kind words. I have attached below two images, one of the character following "Justice," and another of the word above it. Thanks again for your assistance.

10th February 2011, 08:43 PM	#4
DaveS Member Join Date: Feb 2006 Posts: 327	Chris: Yes, looking at it again it probably is bone. Even so, with all the many kaskaras iv'e seen this is the first that i have seen done in bone, ivory, or whatever. That sets this sword off as special, at least to me anyway..Dave.

11th February 2011, 12:44 AM	#5
A.alnakkas Member Join Date: Nov 2010 Location: Kuwait Posts: 1,340	hmm it says : العدل و سد. means: Justice and ???. the second word is "Sad" which means something that blocks. Makes no sense

11th February 2011, 02:40 AM	#6
DaveS Member Join Date: Feb 2006 Posts: 327	Chris: Thinking about it again i seem to recall years ago that in one of Fagans catalogues there was a kaskara with a bone handle. For all we know, this might be the same one, as some of these pieces do seem to travel around between collectors..........Dave.

11th February 2011, 03:00 AM	#7
laEspadaAncha Member Join Date: Aug 2006 Posts: 608	Hello Dave, Interesting indeed. I have had an eye out for one for some time, and after reading a fascinating thread here last year (and in particular the contributions by Jim, Tim, and Iain), have been hoping and waiting for one covered in thuluth script (Khartoum is one of my all-time favorite movies). However, luck had not prevailed until this one more-or-less fell into my lap this last month. It would truly be fortunate to hear form someone who has the catalog in which you seem to recall a similar (or same?) bone-handled kaskara, who could either confirm it is the same one or post pictures of it for comparison. *** Abdullatif - Thank you once again for your assistance in translating the inscription. When you say that the contextual use of "sad" refers to "something that blocks," do you mean in the literal sense, or in a more metaphorical sense, i.e., it reverses the meaning of the word or words with which it appears? Can you think of a loose translation in which "Sad" - or as you state - "something that blocks" along with "Justice" might make sense? Maybe it's a colloquial usage? *** Regards, Chris