Metal De-Corroder and its effects

Rick · 16th September 2010, 09:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RDGAC

Interesting to hear that, Rick; I've found that the stuff dries out far too quickly, when applied with a brush. Ten, maybe fifteen minutes between coats are the maximum I can get. Even at the end of that the solvent has almost entirely evaporated.

Atlantia: Yes, it's acidic. It's not too acidic, which seems to be its chief selling point; it's generally much gentler than your average acid when it comes to getting rid of corrosion, so much so that you can handle it without gloves.

The plan with this barrel is, as it stands, just to try and remove the heavy mottled rust present all over its length. I realise that it may prove to be even more unsightly if it is removed, only to leave behind deep pitting and unevenness upon the barrel surface, which is the main reason I'm proceeding cautiously. The loose stuff has already been removed; it took me nearly two months to get rid of it, in fact, the old-fashioned way. The breech end seemed a reasonably sensible test area since it's heavily rusted and the small areas visible indicate that it's lightly grained; those areas which have been shielded from moisture, further up the barrel, show off a very attractive watered pattern and thus I didn't want to ruin them inadvertently.

I have found that careful, light use of the Renaissance product called "Pre-Lim" can help restore the sheen of the metal, but since it's still abrasive (even if it's a very gentle abrasive) I'm not sure if I'd be happy using it on the watered barrel.Perhaps I'm just underestimating the durability of the pattern itself.

Yes, I had to refresh the areas about that often; a little picking and scrubbing then reapply .

I'm wondering if your barrel might benefit from a prolonged soak in Pineapple juice .

Dmitry · 16th September 2010, 10:43 PM

I bought a sample bottle of this stuff, and used it on a worthless blade. It removed the rust, and etched the steel to a dull, lifeless color, like the percussion cock and barrel on the photos above.
I put it away, and haven't used it again.

Battara · 17th September 2010, 02:09 AM

There is a difference between patina and rust. I would use this stuff sparingly and take off the rust but not the patina.

As far as the copper is concerned, make sure that what is in the solution is not copper or brass - the acid with steel probably creates an electrolysis with copper or brass, making the copper ions to migrate onto the steel, a natural result with many acid solutions.

Finally, I would suggest polishing and then adding a patina to the "lack luster" surfaces.

Ian Knight · 17th September 2010, 11:55 AM

I have used this product on a few swords but use with caution. I too was shocked the first time that I used it. It leaves a horrible dull grey surface.
Be prepared to do a bit of polishing after treatment. I use very fine carborundum paper, used wet, and then polish with Solvo.
I wouldn't use on a sword with faint etching because the polishing will wear it further. Neither would I use it on any sword with blueing or gilding. On a plain blade it is fine but go carefully with the treatment. I apply the liquid with a brush, leave for half an hour and then wash in water using a brass brush on the rusted areas. Repeat if required.
I don't like seeing rust on any sword because it is damaging the metal underneath. Black patches also harbour red rust underneath so it isn't safe to leave that on the metal either.

I contacted the makers of De-corroder a year ago regarding the effect their product had on metal. Surprisingly the were quite taken aback and told me to stop using it.

Ian

RSWORD · 17th September 2010, 01:09 PM

An important step in all of this process to definitely not forget is to add plenty of oil after any form of etching, polishing or anything of the sort. I recommend WD-40 as the first coat after a good polish or etch as it does a great job of expelling water molecules from the steel and really sinks into the pores of the metal. After a day or two of a good WD-40 soak, wipe away, clean area with acetone and then apply a light coat of gun oil to the area to conserve for longer periods of time.

Ian Knight · 17th September 2010, 01:55 PM

I would personally recommend applying Renaissance Wax which is used by many museums to protect valuable objects.

Ian

RDGAC · 17th September 2010, 02:46 PM

I've bee steadily working my way through our collection, applying Renaissance Wax to the hard surfaced objects where it seemed appropriate, and the results are indeed good. It's a very highly regarded product, not least because the coating it gives is both attractive and durable. I'm still unwilling to use it on leather, despite being informed that it's safe to do so, but it's excellent for metal and wood, from what I can gather.

The etching of the metal is indeed troubling. The sword displayed in the first picture was treated with Pre-Lim polish after being treated with the de-corroder, which may go some way to explaining its better finish than the tested area of the jezail barrel, but I remain cautious. Perhaps, if I am to use this at all, I shall have to apply it to each spot of rust individually (which will mean taking about 6 months to get it off); or perhaps there's just nothing more to be done for this barrel, much as I'm very sad to admit it.

Ibrahiim al Balooshi · 2nd October 2011, 06:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RSWORD

An important step in all of this process to definitely not forget is to add plenty of oil after any form of etching, polishing or anything of the sort. I recommend WD-40 as the first coat after a good polish or etch as it does a great job of expelling water molecules from the steel and really sinks into the pores of the metal. After a day or two of a good WD-40 soak, wipe away, clean area with acetone and then apply a light coat of gun oil to the area to conserve for longer periods of time.

Salaams, For treating rust spots I use aluminium foil ... same as for using sandpaper ... it works at sub atomic levels apparently and the rust does vanish slowly. Use with just fingers and a few foil pieces folded in half... like a small wad.... and rub away. I get the same grey horrible result using lemon salt but the patina is coming back using olive oil and or gun oil . ( sewing machine oil )

josh stout · 11th October 2011, 01:41 AM

I have been working on a technique with decent results. First I wash the blade with soap and water using a plastic pot scrubber. This is to partially degrease and partially to remove any easily removed rust. Then I degrease with Windex following with a vinegar soak. This gives similar results to the product you are using. After that there is still some patina, the rust is almost entirely gone, and pattern welding shows with high carbon steel darker than the softer parts. The problem is the graying you have mentioned. So I polish the blade with 6000 grit micromesh (http://micro-surface.com/index.php?main_page=page&id=15). The micromesh gently brightens the gray areas without completely obscuring the pattern brought out by the acid.

Josh

17th September 2010, 11:55 AM	#4
Ian Knight Member Join Date: Dec 2009 Location: East Sussex, England. Posts: 103	I have used this product on a few swords but use with caution. I too was shocked the first time that I used it. It leaves a horrible dull grey surface. Be prepared to do a bit of polishing after treatment. I use very fine carborundum paper, used wet, and then polish with Solvo. I wouldn't use on a sword with faint etching because the polishing will wear it further. Neither would I use it on any sword with blueing or gilding. On a plain blade it is fine but go carefully with the treatment. I apply the liquid with a brush, leave for half an hour and then wash in water using a brass brush on the rusted areas. Repeat if required. I don't like seeing rust on any sword because it is damaging the metal underneath. Black patches also harbour red rust underneath so it isn't safe to leave that on the metal either. I contacted the makers of De-corroder a year ago regarding the effect their product had on metal. Surprisingly the were quite taken aback and told me to stop using it. Ian Last edited by Ian Knight; 17th September 2010 at 12:35 PM.

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16th September 2010, 10:43 PM	#2
Dmitry Member Join Date: Jul 2009 Posts: 607	I bought a sample bottle of this stuff, and used it on a worthless blade. It removed the rust, and etched the steel to a dull, lifeless color, like the percussion cock and barrel on the photos above. I put it away, and haven't used it again.

17th September 2010, 02:09 AM	#3
Battara EAAF Staff Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Louisville, KY Posts: 7,310	There is a difference between patina and rust. I would use this stuff sparingly and take off the rust but not the patina. As far as the copper is concerned, make sure that what is in the solution is not copper or brass - the acid with steel probably creates an electrolysis with copper or brass, making the copper ions to migrate onto the steel, a natural result with many acid solutions. Finally, I would suggest polishing and then adding a patina to the "lack luster" surfaces.

17th September 2010, 01:09 PM	#5
RSWORD Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Greensboro, NC Posts: 1,087	An important step in all of this process to definitely not forget is to add plenty of oil after any form of etching, polishing or anything of the sort. I recommend WD-40 as the first coat after a good polish or etch as it does a great job of expelling water molecules from the steel and really sinks into the pores of the metal. After a day or two of a good WD-40 soak, wipe away, clean area with acetone and then apply a light coat of gun oil to the area to conserve for longer periods of time.

17th September 2010, 01:55 PM	#6
Ian Knight Member Join Date: Dec 2009 Location: East Sussex, England. Posts: 103	I would personally recommend applying Renaissance Wax which is used by many museums to protect valuable objects. Ian

17th September 2010, 02:46 PM	#7
RDGAC Member Join Date: Mar 2010 Location: York, UK Posts: 167	I've bee steadily working my way through our collection, applying Renaissance Wax to the hard surfaced objects where it seemed appropriate, and the results are indeed good. It's a very highly regarded product, not least because the coating it gives is both attractive and durable. I'm still unwilling to use it on leather, despite being informed that it's safe to do so, but it's excellent for metal and wood, from what I can gather. The etching of the metal is indeed troubling. The sword displayed in the first picture was treated with Pre-Lim polish after being treated with the de-corroder, which may go some way to explaining its better finish than the tested area of the jezail barrel, but I remain cautious. Perhaps, if I am to use this at all, I shall have to apply it to each spot of rust individually (which will mean taking about 6 months to get it off); or perhaps there's just nothing more to be done for this barrel, much as I'm very sad to admit it.

11th October 2011, 01:41 AM	#9
josh stout Member Join Date: Mar 2007 Posts: 407	I have been working on a technique with decent results. First I wash the blade with soap and water using a plastic pot scrubber. This is to partially degrease and partially to remove any easily removed rust. Then I degrease with Windex following with a vinegar soak. This gives similar results to the product you are using. After that there is still some patina, the rust is almost entirely gone, and pattern welding shows with high carbon steel darker than the softer parts. The problem is the graying you have mentioned. So I polish the blade with 6000 grit micromesh (http://micro-surface.com/index.php?main_page=page&id=15). The micromesh gently brightens the gray areas without completely obscuring the pattern brought out by the acid. Josh