The EARLY MAKERS TRADE MARKS thread... lost and partly restored.

fernando · 19th October 2017, 03:05 PM

Old 24th December 2011, 09:22 AM #221

Posted by:
Jim McDougall
EAA Research Consultant

Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Route 66

For those readers interested in the use of the Greek cross in varying forms on early blades and often inscriptions from as early as medieval period..please see "European Bladed Takouba" on the ethnographic forum.
The topic had been cross posted on the European Armoury forum as well, but the discussion has developed on the ethnographic.

While always hoping more data will be added here on examples etc. I will try to add updates as well. Most important to realize is that these crosses, as well as the 'cross and orb' are devices which were added to blades apparantly talismanically. In earlier times crosses were added to scabbards of swords to protect them from about Charlemagnes time, and the practice seems to have moved to the blades as well. These were typically inlaid, often with yellow metal either brass or copper, and while often part of inscriptions or devotional phrases either opening and closing or singly, they apparantly became used independantly.

The first illustration is the blade of an apparant 14th century sword with the type cross known in heraldry as the 'cross crosslet'..stated to actually represent four Latin type crosses together.
The second is on the blade of a remarkable takouba posted by Iain in the thread noted, and the heraldic term for this type of forked end cross is known as 'fourchee' (forked). While the markings compendium attached in next illustration states date of 1590 for the marking, it was clearly used centuries prior to this 'recorded' date. These compendiums of markings seem typically to reflect known marks from actual collected specimens of weapons and not particularly to specific makers in most cases. This is because these kinds of 'magical' or 'talismanic' devices were widely used in conjunction with other markings and or inscriptions not necessarily indicative of a specific maker.
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19th October 2017, 03:05 PM	#18
fernando (deceased) Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Portugal Posts: 9,694	Old 24th December 2011, 09:22 AM #221 Posted by: Jim McDougall EAA Research Consultant Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Route 66 For those readers interested in the use of the Greek cross in varying forms on early blades and often inscriptions from as early as medieval period..please see "European Bladed Takouba" on the ethnographic forum. The topic had been cross posted on the European Armoury forum as well, but the discussion has developed on the ethnographic. While always hoping more data will be added here on examples etc. I will try to add updates as well. Most important to realize is that these crosses, as well as the 'cross and orb' are devices which were added to blades apparantly talismanically. In earlier times crosses were added to scabbards of swords to protect them from about Charlemagnes time, and the practice seems to have moved to the blades as well. These were typically inlaid, often with yellow metal either brass or copper, and while often part of inscriptions or devotional phrases either opening and closing or singly, they apparantly became used independantly. The first illustration is the blade of an apparant 14th century sword with the type cross known in heraldry as the 'cross crosslet'..stated to actually represent four Latin type crosses together. The second is on the blade of a remarkable takouba posted by Iain in the thread noted, and the heraldic term for this type of forked end cross is known as 'fourchee' (forked). While the markings compendium attached in next illustration states date of 1590 for the marking, it was clearly used centuries prior to this 'recorded' date. These compendiums of markings seem typically to reflect known marks from actual collected specimens of weapons and not particularly to specific makers in most cases. This is because these kinds of 'magical' or 'talismanic' devices were widely used in conjunction with other markings and or inscriptions not necessarily indicative of a specific maker. . Last edited by fernando; 20th October 2017 at 03:13 PM.