B a d i k

ganjawulung · 13th August 2007, 06:39 AM

Dear All,
I hope I don't break the forum rules, by posting these kinds of badiks. Is there any one of you who can explain the details of these badiks? The second one is like the form of "pedang sabet suduk" (kind of sword, for whipping and stabbing?) which you can often found in the old Javanese swords...

Ganjawulung

Marcokeris · 15th August 2007, 04:47 PM

Dear Ganja
I don't know well badik. I have only one jawa badik. It seems similar to yours.
The hit is made by bufalo horn, sarong is made by two kinds of wood (one timoho the other i dont know),pamor is Kulit S.
Marco

VVV · 16th August 2007, 03:56 PM

Ganja,

Very nice collection!
The top Badik resembles the ones from Makassar, Sulawesi.
But I have so far only seen them with repoussed silver dress.
Do you know anything about it's origin?

Michael

KuKulzA28 · 5th May 2009, 08:33 PM

Hope no one is bothered that I've resurrected this thread...

I was wondering, how exactly is a Badik used and/or taught traditionally? Just looking at them I can tell they are for punch-stabs, maybe cuts to vulnerable flesh - but mostly thrusts. Are they for death-matches? Assassination? Self-defense? Side-arm in combat? I can see them being very effective for any of those roles. I can also see that they are very limited in their application - it seems to be a purely thrusting knife for fighting. Due to it's size it looks like it'd be used in knees/elbows/throwing/locking range - do traditional Bugis silat styles reflect this? Does it even have a place in Sulawesi silat or is it just a simple "shanker" in application?

Queequeg · 5th May 2009, 09:14 PM

KuKulzA28,

I once explained a little bit about the badik HERE. I hope that helps.

KuKulzA28 · 5th May 2009, 10:01 PM

Ah, thanks Queequeg (Panday?)!

"Badiks are stabbing knives used in close quarters, and brought into action from the intended victim's side or rear. Once the stab has landed, the user slashes with it instead of simply withdrawing it from the same wound."
~ The Panday's Gazette

Perhaps I'll have to get the The Weapons and Fighting Arts of Indonesia book myself one of these days and sit down for a good read. I've read you have some Pekiti-Tersia-Kali training? Does it give you any additional insight into this weapon?
I notice the interesting way the man holds the Badik... I wonder why the Bugis didn't make longer handles to accommodate a fist - maybe there was a good reason for that? More control over the stab when the thumb and index are placed so?
If anyone else has comments please share!

Scholars and fighters all, the more the merrier.

Sajen · 5th May 2009, 10:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by KuKulzA28

Hope no one is bothered that I've resurrected this thread...

I was wondering, how exactly is a Badik used and/or taught traditionally? Just looking at them I can tell they are for punch-stabs, maybe cuts to vulnerable flesh - but mostly thrusts. Are they for death-matches? Assassination? Self-defense? Side-arm in combat? I can see them being very effective for any of those roles. I can also see that they are very limited in their application - it seems to be a purely thrusting knife for fighting. Due to it's size it looks like it'd be used in knees/elbows/throwing/locking range - do traditional Bugis silat styles reflect this? Does it even have a place in Sulawesi silat or is it just a simple "shanker" in application?

I can't answer your questions with assurance. But I think that a Badik is a side-arm for self-defence or combat same like the simple Keris from Bugis. And that it also can be a status symbol when you look to high class pieces like the one at the second place from the left in my pictures or the one just ended on e-bay:
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll...m=120412868932
regards,
sajen

KuKulzA28 · 6th May 2009, 10:30 PM

those are very beautiful Badiks.

Were the pretty ones used by wealthier individuals, or simply worn by wealthier individuals during formal events?

Sajen · 6th May 2009, 11:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by KuKulzA28

those are very beautiful Badiks.

Were the pretty ones used by wealthier individuals, or simply worn by wealthier individuals during formal events?

I think it's the same like today, the wealthier persons drive expensive cars and the poor ones cheap cars!

When I look to the one with ivory handle (from hippotamus), it have a well used patination. So my guess is that it have been a dagger for every day from a rich man. In down from the sheat it is dated: 16.8.38. Maybe from 1838 or 1938, who know's?

sajen

KuKulzA28 · 7th May 2009, 03:01 AM

Ah well that makes sense...

I wonder, if Badiks were widespread amongst the Bugis, many Bugis must have known how to use it - right? If so, Bugis silat should have training with regards to it... cause once one has the form and technique, the attacking itself is somewhat easy I would assume... it's the targets, the evasions, and the countering that would be trickier... the art in the art of knife-fighting, right?

Also was it a concealed knife or one tucked away? I mean if everyone carried a knife or a gun, we'd know everyone had something but not where. If we all carried it the same way, just not too conspicuously, that'd be another story.

On the side... seems like the pisau, tumbuk lada, and sewar probably have a similar usage as the badik right?

Sajen · 7th May 2009, 06:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by KuKulzA28

Ah well that makes sense...
On the side... seems like the pisau, tumbuk lada, and sewar probably have a similar usage as the badik right?

This guess is nearby, I would agree.

PenangsangII · 13th May 2009, 08:47 AM

to a Buginese/Makassarese, badik is "man's best friend"..... It's always carried wherever and whenever a man goes out.... even in his sleep, a badik is still tucked under his pillow

KuKulzA28 · 13th May 2009, 10:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PenangsangII

to a Buginese/Makassarese, badik is "man's best friend"..... It's always carried wherever and whenever a man goes out.... even in his sleep, a badik is still tucked under his pillow

Is that still the case or did most Buginese and Makassarese let go of this old way and the Badik?

Sajen · 13th May 2009, 11:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by KuKulzA28

Is that still the case or did most Buginese and Makassarese let go of this old way and the Badik?

When I have been in Makassar three years ago I haven't seen people with a badik.
sajen

KuKulzA28 · 14th May 2009, 03:13 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sajen

When I have been in Makassar three years ago I haven't seen people with a badik.
sajen

Ah, figures... it was a Buginese/Makassarese man's best-friend

Sajen · 14th May 2009, 05:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by KuKulzA28

Ah, figures... it was a Buginese/Makassarese man's best-friend

Makassar is a big city, maybe in the country they still wear it, I don't know about!
sajen

KuKulzA28 · 15th May 2009, 02:11 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sajen

Makassar is a big city, maybe in the country they still wear it, I don't know about!
sajen

Good point! How traditional do you think Indonesia's countrysides are? Rapidly modernizing? Parangs, T-shirts, posters, cell-phones, carabao, wooden homes with corrugated sheet metal roofing?

Sajen · 15th May 2009, 03:03 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by KuKulzA28

Good point! How traditional do you think Indonesia's countrysides are? Rapidly modernizing? Parangs, T-shirts, posters, cell-phones, carabao, wooden homes with corrugated sheet metal roofing?

When I look to the home island from wife, Halmahera, it's still very traditional, on the other side: by my first visit you don't have had a cell-net, two years later you can nearly everywhere phone with cell. And everywhere plastic. But still many traditional being. I married my wife over there in traditional way, a "party" over three days. And a big Cakalele dance!!
Here some pics from 2006 for better understanding.
Pic 1: a market scene in Tobelo, the biggest city on Halmahera
Pic 2: village on a very small island by Halmahera
Pic 3: a "cow-lorry"
Pic 4: view from Halmahera to Ternate
When I see now the pictures I want to be there!
sajen

13th August 2007, 06:39 AM	#1
ganjawulung Member Join Date: May 2007 Location: J a k a r t a Posts: 991	B a d i k Dear All, I hope I don't break the forum rules, by posting these kinds of badiks. Is there any one of you who can explain the details of these badiks? The second one is like the form of "pedang sabet suduk" (kind of sword, for whipping and stabbing?) which you can often found in the old Javanese swords... Ganjawulung Attached Images

15th August 2007, 04:47 PM	#2
Marcokeris Member Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Italy Posts: 928	Dear Ganja I don't know well badik. I have only one jawa badik. It seems similar to yours. The hit is made by bufalo horn, sarong is made by two kinds of wood (one timoho the other i dont know),pamor is Kulit S. Marco Attached Images

5th May 2009, 10:01 PM	#6
KuKulzA28 Member Join Date: Oct 2008 Location: between work and sleep Posts: 731	Ah, thanks Queequeg (Panday?)! "Badiks are stabbing knives used in close quarters, and brought into action from the intended victim's side or rear. Once the stab has landed, the user slashes with it instead of simply withdrawing it from the same wound." ~ The Panday's Gazette Perhaps I'll have to get the The Weapons and Fighting Arts of Indonesia book myself one of these days and sit down for a good read. I've read you have some Pekiti-Tersia-Kali training? Does it give you any additional insight into this weapon? I notice the interesting way the man holds the Badik... I wonder why the Bugis didn't make longer handles to accommodate a fist - maybe there was a good reason for that? More control over the stab when the thumb and index are placed so? If anyone else has comments please share! Scholars and fighters all, the more the merrier.

16th August 2007, 03:56 PM	#3
VVV Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Sweden Posts: 1,637	Ganja, Very nice collection! The top Badik resembles the ones from Makassar, Sulawesi. But I have so far only seen them with repoussed silver dress. Do you know anything about it's origin? Michael

5th May 2009, 08:33 PM	#4
KuKulzA28 Member Join Date: Oct 2008 Location: between work and sleep Posts: 731	Hope no one is bothered that I've resurrected this thread... I was wondering, how exactly is a Badik used and/or taught traditionally? Just looking at them I can tell they are for punch-stabs, maybe cuts to vulnerable flesh - but mostly thrusts. Are they for death-matches? Assassination? Self-defense? Side-arm in combat? I can see them being very effective for any of those roles. I can also see that they are very limited in their application - it seems to be a purely thrusting knife for fighting. Due to it's size it looks like it'd be used in knees/elbows/throwing/locking range - do traditional Bugis silat styles reflect this? Does it even have a place in Sulawesi silat or is it just a simple "shanker" in application?

5th May 2009, 09:14 PM	#5
Queequeg Member Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: Detroit (New Mayapan) Posts: 96	KuKulzA28, I once explained a little bit about the badik HERE. I hope that helps.

6th May 2009, 10:30 PM	#8
KuKulzA28 Member Join Date: Oct 2008 Location: between work and sleep Posts: 731	those are very beautiful Badiks. Were the pretty ones used by wealthier individuals, or simply worn by wealthier individuals during formal events?

7th May 2009, 03:01 AM	#10
KuKulzA28 Member Join Date: Oct 2008 Location: between work and sleep Posts: 731	Ah well that makes sense... I wonder, if Badiks were widespread amongst the Bugis, many Bugis must have known how to use it - right? If so, Bugis silat should have training with regards to it... cause once one has the form and technique, the attacking itself is somewhat easy I would assume... it's the targets, the evasions, and the countering that would be trickier... the art in the art of knife-fighting, right? Also was it a concealed knife or one tucked away? I mean if everyone carried a knife or a gun, we'd know everyone had something but not where. If we all carried it the same way, just not too conspicuously, that'd be another story. On the side... seems like the pisau, tumbuk lada, and sewar probably have a similar usage as the badik right?

13th May 2009, 08:47 AM	#12
PenangsangII Member Join Date: Jun 2007 Posts: 401	to a Buginese/Makassarese, badik is "man's best friend"..... It's always carried wherever and whenever a man goes out.... even in his sleep, a badik is still tucked under his pillow