Help with ID of this curved sword please

[thinreadline]

This is a sword I have had for many years in my collection without being able to discover anything about it. I would appreciate any comments from members. I bought it simply because I liked the look of it but have never been able to ID it.
It measures 104 cm from pommel to point across the curve .
Thanks.

[cornelistromp]

it seems to me an older blade, probably 17th century, mounted in a later hilt probably done in the 19th century. (the style of the hilt is of the last quarter of the 16thC)

best,

[Atlantia]

I agree with Cornelistomp that it's an older balde in later hilt. I'd say 18thC blade in 19thC hilt.
Very attractive though! I WANT IT!

[thinreadline]

Thank you both , this makes sense as I bought it along with some Victorian 'Gothic Revival ' daggers . In this case though the blade of the sword looked very old compared with the hilt .

[Armadillo]

Hello,
I realize I am digging up a very old thread.

The worksmanship of the hilt does not appear to me to be 19th century. I am quite certain that I recognize the hand behind this sword hilt. I have seen multiple examples of work from a very talented smith in NW England whom I believe is the artist here. I own one example of his work. There are telling details and patination that are repeated over much of his work.
I don't know when this smith retired, nor do I know how to contact him, but as a very genuine fan, I would love to reach him. If he is part of this online community, maybe he would step forward and tell me whether I am right or wrong about this piece.

It is a very beautiful hilt and you should be a proud owner. I've attached a photo of other pieces from this artist.
Best,
Adair

[urbanspaceman]

Ref. Armadillo. I know an elderly collector from NE England (my stomping ground) who may well recognise this work or possibly know of any smiths over on the other side (it's not far, the Romans built a wall along that divide).
I will contact him and see what he knows then return to this thread if I find anything.
I agree, it is very fine work.

[Jim McDougall]

While this is an area typically strongly avoided here, the subject is actually quite a 'double edged sword' (pun intended). Modern commercial versions of historic weapons have some value as studies in interpretation for those interested in the forms and wish to collect and/or practice the actual use of them.

Re-enactors and students of martial arts typically would not chose to take valuable genuine examples for use in these events. Most reproductions are reasonably faithful examples which reflect sound research on the forms, but of course lack the essential nuances which are inherent marks of history.

As discussed here years ago, the demands for the baronial splendor of mansions and parlors often sought impressive examples of historic arms, and there were artisans who met those demands, the most famed was the atelier of Ernst Schmitt in Munich. His work was so convincing that many examples were in the Higgins museum shown among authentic pieces.

One of the most impressive artisans of our times was my friend Eljay Erickson, who when we collected together back in the late 70s, became skilled in repairing many of the weapons as required. His keen attention to conservative repair and cleaning along with his knowledge of the original forms and their history led to his developing production of faithfully interpreted examples. Again, many so authentic that they could not easily be recognized as reproductions. Knowing this, and not wishing these to be part of deceptive practices, he carefully marked them as his work.

Unfortunately, unscrupulous dealers removed the marks, and we of course know the rest.

I recently tried to reach him, but was sadly informed he had passed. I had always sought his counsel in queries on British weapons as his knowledge was unsurpassed.

Having noted these things, I wanted to illustrate my perception on the texture of these interpreted versions of historic weapons, and the respect I have for the skilled artisans who faithfully reproduce these historic arms .
With our focus on historic values of vintage weapons, these of course exceed our scope here.
However other venues, such as MyArmoury, openly provide discussion forums where the range of reproduction arms can be recognized. There these can be discussed openly.

The work on the examples shown here in this new post is exemplary, and I do hope for good outcome in locating the artist who made them.

Best wishes
Jim

[urbanspaceman]

Ref. Armadillo:
I spoke with my friend; he had indeed mentioned someone from the West side (Lake District/Cumberland) who had moved South some time ago to join family. His name was/is Terence Orchard. Good luck.

[ulfberth]

as Fernando wrote on the scope of this forum:
This forum purpose is to primarily provide a place for the study of history and development of arms and armour, from ancient times to the end of the 19th century, firearms included.
Exceptions like modern (vintage) shooting guns post 1900, or modern weapon reproductions that may reflect historical representation, will be understandable in due context but, our scope being the study of actual antique weapons, we prefer to leave their discussion to more specialized venues.

There are other forums that specialize in reproductions for instance " myarmoury"
Im sure they will be glad to help you , in my opinion these things have no place and bring down the purpose, image and quality of this forum and we are obliged to respect the original intend of the founders.

[werecow]

Unfortunately myarmoury has not been accepting new members for many years now (for at least as long as I've been collecting).

[Hotspur]

The Sword Buyers Guide is probably the remaining forum where some of the long term modern collectors still gather. All Swords and the IASC rooms on Facebook.

https://sbg-sword-forum.forums.net/

https://www.facebook.com/groups/iascpost/

https://www.facebook.com/groups/1243498752490849/

There are other FB groups but those stand out, as visible



Cheers
GC

[Armadillo]

To all the members of Vikingsword who responded to my comment:
I apologize for focusing on the elements of a sword that appeared to be reproductions. My assertion and inquiry appear to be beyond the scope of this discussion forum.

I do however feel that recognizing the techniques of reproduction and the stylistic elements and trends is an important part of differentiating historical from reproduction. The hand and eye of a particular maker often offer noteworthy clues. In this instance I felt it was worth pointing out. There is one other sword shared on this forum that has hilt components almost certainly from the same hand. That insight should be valuable to collectors of historic edged weapons.

I want to point out that it was not my intention at all to claim that the workmanship itself was deliberately misleading. Quite the contrary. If I am correct about this maker, he has done a fine job of creating an aesthetic that is historical in nature but versed enough in stylistic detail to create designs that are very much his own identifiable pastiche. That is exactly what appeals to me about his work.

My search for a particular artist brought me here via a Pinterest search. I've exhausted attempts to locate this maker, but I'm pleased to have discovered this forum and a long history of old threads to study.
Best,
Adair

[Armadillo]

Originally Posted by urbanspaceman

Ref. Armadillo:
I spoke with my friend; he had indeed mentioned someone from the West side (Lake District/Cumberland) who had moved South some time ago to join family. His name was/is Terence Orchard. Good luck.

Thank you for the suggestion. While not the name I had in mind, I look forward to seeing the work of Mr. Orchard.