Hilt material

[Maurice]

Hello,

I have a Buginese keris, but I'm not sure about the material of the hilt.
It looks like whalebone to me, but it looks like it has a dental nerve canel on top if the hilt?

Best wishes,
Maurice

[thomas hauschild]

Looks a little bit like the core of walrus-ivory. But these tooth are straight and it will be really difficult to make a grip with a 90° curve out of it. I saw walrus tusk with 1 m length and 10 cm diameter ( they are mostly oval but 8cm on the short side and 10 as the longer diameter ) such a big tusk will be enough for a keris hilt. Difficult to see from the pictures if the area of the grip near the blade will show „outside structure“ of the tusk or not. Maybe a hilt made of 2 parts ? Take a look at pictures of Yatagan with walrus grips. The „ears“ of that grips will show the outside structure and the area near the tang will show the core grain.

[Maurice]

Originally Posted by thomas hauschild

Looks a little bit like the core of walrus-ivory. But these tooth are straight and it will be really difficult to make a grip with a 90° curve out of it. I saw walrus tusk with 1 m length and 10 cm diameter ( they are mostly oval but 8cm on the short side and 10 as the longer diameter ) such a big tusk will be enough for a keris hilt. Difficult to see from the pictures if the area of the grip near the blade will show „outside structure“ of the tusk or not. Maybe a hilt made of 2 parts ? Take a look at pictures of Yatagan with walrus grips. The „ears“ of that grips will show the outside structure and the area near the tang will show the core grain.

Hello Thomas,

Thank you for your insight. Walrus ivory is something that came up my mind also. But at first I thought it would not be possible because of the (90 degree bend) shape of the hilt.
I can't see any marks that the hilt had been made by two different parts.

When looking at the marked part of the hilt in the added photo, you see a kind of 'rougher' surface. I would say if it should be whale tooth ivory or walrus ivory, this part should have been smooth, and not with a kind of porous area?

Kind regards,
Maurice

[Sajen]

Hi Maurice,

Could very well be made from whalebone. Attached are pictures from a Minangkabau keris from my collection where the scabbard is made from whalebone.

Best regards,
Detlef

[Sajen]

How does it feel? Very smooth? Walrus. A porous feel? Whalebone. But the stem of the scabbard from my keris which is made from whalebone too is also due patination very smooth. I would need to handle your grip to be sure.

Best regards,
Detlef

[David]

it is hard to be certain without handling it, but whale bone would be my first guess as well.
Love your example as well Detlef.

[Sajen]

Originally Posted by David

it is hard to be certain without handling it, but whale bone would be my first guess as well.
Love your example as well Detlef.

Thanks David!

[Maurice]

Originally Posted by Sajen

How does it feel? Very smooth? Walrus. A porous feel? Whalebone. But the stem of the scabbard from my keris which is made from whalebone too is also due patination very smooth. I would need to handle your grip to be sure.

Best regards,
Detlef

Thank you for the Minang keris photos.
It looks like it even has the same 'colour' as my keris hilt.
It feels rather smooth, but as you also say, because of age and patina it feels more smooth now as it did when it was new.

Regards
Maurice

[Maurice]

Originally Posted by David

it is hard to be certain without handling it, but whale bone would be my first guess as well.

Thank you David.

Regards,
Maurice

[Sajen]

Originally Posted by Maurice

Thank you for the Minang keris photos.
It looks like it even has the same 'colour' as my keris hilt.
It feels rather smooth, but as you also say, because of age and patina it feels more smooth now as it did when it was new.

Like David I guess that you handle is from whale bone too.

Regards,
Detlef

[Rick]

Looking at the patina on the grip makes me think that this handle has a lot of age cracks from use; the material seems eroded in places. The Cauliflower-like section confuses me a bit since it does look like the dentine, or pulp that is found in the center of a Walrus tusk.
I know from experience how much whale bone stinks; it is full of oil and it would take a very long time (years) to get the oil smell to go away if left outside in the open.
Now maybe there is a method unknown to me that would accelerate the breakdown of the oil, there probably is. But when I look at the hilt I see so many pores in its surface which tells me it is not the tooth of a Cetacean.

Surely there must be parts of the whale's skeleton that are firmer and less porous than the majority of its other parts. I would love to see some of them.

It is a very puzzling hilt.

[Sajen]

Here a kabeala hilt from whale bone. Just for comparison.

[Ian]

Hi Rick,

There is some information on whalebone hilts and guards on kampilan on the Ethno Forum, including this thread: http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showthread.php?t=21204

Rick Stroud (RSWORD) also has a nice example on his web site, and I have taken the liberty of downloading a couple of his pics...
.

[Maurice]

Thank you all for your replies!

What is bothering me, are the 'lines' or 'grains' on this specific area of the keris hilt, which you can see in the photo.
I don't find this on all of the whalebone examples posted.....

Regards,
Maurice

[Sajen]

Hi Maurice,

It's the same that bothered me, your handle looks somewhat different than the shown whalebone examples.

Regards,
Detlef

[Maurice]

Originally Posted by Sajen

Hi Maurice,

It's the same that bothered me, your handle looks somewhat different than the shown whalebone examples.

Regards,
Detlef

Hi Detlef,

As long as it isn't plastic, it is ok with me

Kind regards,
Maurice