new small Balinese (?) Keris for comments

mariusgmioc · 4th February 2017, 09:00 PM

The hilt and the wrangka are of marine ivory.

Any comments are welcomed.

David · 4th February 2017, 09:22 PM

There is certainly some nice craftsmanship working here as far as i can tell from the photos. The singo looks more Javanese in style than Balinese to me though. I don't think i have ever seen an old Bali keris with a singo like this. But i think this is happening more and more with contemporary keris, a mending of regional styles.
I also must say that while i really do enjoy old ivory pieces i am not particularly a fan of new ivory given that it is often of highly questionable origin. I personally would not own new ivory, but maybe that's just me.

A. G. Maisey · 4th February 2017, 09:22 PM

Very pretty.

Not quite to my taste, but very pretty just the same.

David · 4th February 2017, 10:54 PM

Alan, you would know better than i. Can you comment on my suspicion that the singo style used here is not quite right for a Balinese keris. At least i have never seen it on an old Bali blade.
I do agree it is pretty though.

Sajen · 4th February 2017, 11:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by David

I also must say that while i really do enjoy old ivory pieces i am not particularly a fan of new ivory given that it is often of highly questionable origin. I personally would not own new ivory, but maybe that's just me.

Hello David,

I think that he use mammoth ivory for his keris he selling so don't worry.

Regards,
Detlef

BTW, nice contemponary Bali keris also when I would agree with Alan, not my cup of tea!

A. G. Maisey · 5th February 2017, 11:51 AM

David, if you had asked me this question 20 years ago I would have given the opinion that this keris was a modern confection that had absolutely nothing at all to do with Bali.

However, the keris scene in Bali is changing, as far as I can see the change is being driven by the market, the better Balinese makers are going to Central Jawa and Madura for instruction, present day Balinese style no longer necessarily reflects Balinese style of 100years ago.

This is a present day keris.

Is it representative of traditional Balinese style?

No, in my opinion not in even the slightest degree.

Is it artistic?

Yes, highly so.

Is it representative of the present day Balinese approach to keris production?

Yes, it is.

mariusgmioc · 5th February 2017, 12:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by A. G. Maisey

David, if you had asked me this question 20 years ago I would have given the opinion that this keris was a modern confection that had absolutely nothing at all to do with Bali.

However, the keris scene in Bali is changing, as far as I can see the change is being driven by the market, the better Balinese makers are going to Central Jawa and Madura for instruction, present day Balinese style no longer necessarily reflects Balinese style of 100years ago.

This is a present day keris.

Is it representative of traditional Balinese style?

No, in my opinion not in even the slightest degree.

Is it artistic?

Yes, highly so.

Is it representative of the present day Balinese approach to keris production?

Yes, it is.

Thank you Alan for your explanation!

Gustav · 12th February 2017, 06:42 PM

A question - why is the joint line between the two twisted bars running straight on a Keris Luk?

Is there a possibility the Luk are filed and not bent? Don't seem so... never have seen something like that on old Keris.

Jean · 13th February 2017, 06:41 PM

The irregular pamor (or welding?) line not running in the middle of the blade does not look nice indeed.
Regards

Gustav · 13th February 2017, 11:08 PM

I must say, I don't see another explanation for the straight joint line at the moment, as that the Luk were made by removing material, and not by bending.

Not quite the proper Keris culture in that case.

Is the blade rather small?

A. G. Maisey · 13th February 2017, 11:35 PM

Yes, you're absolutely correct Gustav, but I rather think that the maker did not set out to create a traditional keris, rather his objective was to create a work of art --- which this unquestionably is --- in the form of a keris.

He used the keris form as his canvas and then turned on the art.

Not all Balinese keris are big. I have a number of Balinese keris, mostly pretty old ones, that are about the same size as a Javanese keris, or smaller.

Balinese society is very hierarchical, in this society one of the ways in which a person's social position is expressed is in height or size, for example, the place where one sits in a gathering. Where seating is tiered, the seating order runs from high to low, which places people in their correct social order.

In fact the way in which Balinese people express social position is to use the idea of "the place where one sits".

A keris when worn in the formal manner will project above the shoulder of the wearer, and the degree of projection will indicate social position, thus a big or long keris can only belong to a person of high social standing.

In any society there are more people of low or middle status than people of high status.

This raises the question of what happened to all the keris that used to belong to ordinary people. It is probably best if I do not answer that question.

In respect of the keris, my remarks above refer to Balinese traditions of the past, these days it seems like anything goes.

4th February 2017, 09:00 PM	#1
mariusgmioc Member Join Date: Sep 2014 Location: Austria Posts: 1,912	new small Balinese (?) Keris for comments The hilt and the wrangka are of marine ivory. Any comments are welcomed. Attached Images

Thread Tools	Search this Thread
Show Printable Version Email this Page	Search this Thread: Advanced Search
Display Modes
Linear Mode Switch to Hybrid Mode Switch to Threaded Mode

4th February 2017, 09:22 PM	#2
David Keris forum moderator Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Nova Scotia Posts: 7,250	There is certainly some nice craftsmanship working here as far as i can tell from the photos. The singo looks more Javanese in style than Balinese to me though. I don't think i have ever seen an old Bali keris with a singo like this. But i think this is happening more and more with contemporary keris, a mending of regional styles. I also must say that while i really do enjoy old ivory pieces i am not particularly a fan of new ivory given that it is often of highly questionable origin. I personally would not own new ivory, but maybe that's just me.

4th February 2017, 09:22 PM	#3
A. G. Maisey Member Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 7,085	Very pretty. Not quite to my taste, but very pretty just the same.

4th February 2017, 10:54 PM	#4
David Keris forum moderator Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Nova Scotia Posts: 7,250	Alan, you would know better than i. Can you comment on my suspicion that the singo style used here is not quite right for a Balinese keris. At least i have never seen it on an old Bali blade. I do agree it is pretty though.

5th February 2017, 11:51 AM	#6
A. G. Maisey Member Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 7,085	David, if you had asked me this question 20 years ago I would have given the opinion that this keris was a modern confection that had absolutely nothing at all to do with Bali. However, the keris scene in Bali is changing, as far as I can see the change is being driven by the market, the better Balinese makers are going to Central Jawa and Madura for instruction, present day Balinese style no longer necessarily reflects Balinese style of 100years ago. This is a present day keris. Is it representative of traditional Balinese style? No, in my opinion not in even the slightest degree. Is it artistic? Yes, highly so. Is it representative of the present day Balinese approach to keris production? Yes, it is.

12th February 2017, 06:42 PM	#8
Gustav Member Join Date: Jun 2009 Posts: 1,295	A question - why is the joint line between the two twisted bars running straight on a Keris Luk? Is there a possibility the Luk are filed and not bent? Don't seem so... never have seen something like that on old Keris.

13th February 2017, 06:41 PM	#9
Jean Member Join Date: Jun 2009 Posts: 1,740	The irregular pamor (or welding?) line not running in the middle of the blade does not look nice indeed. Regards

13th February 2017, 11:08 PM	#10
Gustav Member Join Date: Jun 2009 Posts: 1,295	I must say, I don't see another explanation for the straight joint line at the moment, as that the Luk were made by removing material, and not by bending. Not quite the proper Keris culture in that case. Is the blade rather small?

13th February 2017, 11:35 PM	#11
A. G. Maisey Member Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 7,085	Yes, you're absolutely correct Gustav, but I rather think that the maker did not set out to create a traditional keris, rather his objective was to create a work of art --- which this unquestionably is --- in the form of a keris. He used the keris form as his canvas and then turned on the art. Not all Balinese keris are big. I have a number of Balinese keris, mostly pretty old ones, that are about the same size as a Javanese keris, or smaller. Balinese society is very hierarchical, in this society one of the ways in which a person's social position is expressed is in height or size, for example, the place where one sits in a gathering. Where seating is tiered, the seating order runs from high to low, which places people in their correct social order. In fact the way in which Balinese people express social position is to use the idea of "the place where one sits". A keris when worn in the formal manner will project above the shoulder of the wearer, and the degree of projection will indicate social position, thus a big or long keris can only belong to a person of high social standing. In any society there are more people of low or middle status than people of high status. This raises the question of what happened to all the keris that used to belong to ordinary people. It is probably best if I do not answer that question. In respect of the keris, my remarks above refer to Balinese traditions of the past, these days it seems like anything goes.