Pistol for Identification

rickystl · 21st May 2011, 08:38 PM

I bought this on my trip to Timonium. I am fairly confident it is Turkish. Do others here agree?
At first glance the lock looks English. But it's not. It was made locally. No markings inside or out. But the stock archetecture, carving, and brass mounts also appear Turkish. I was hoping someone on the Forum could identify the markings on the brass mounts. Thanks for any help. Rick.

rickystl · 21st May 2011, 08:42 PM

Additional photos of pistol.

kahnjar1 · 21st May 2011, 11:22 PM

Hi Rick,
Can you pls post a pic of those marks on the barrel?
Looks a nice piece.
Regards Stuart

RDGAC · 22nd May 2011, 03:08 PM

I'm going to stick my neck out and say Turkish/Ottoman, modernish, for tourists. Just because I want to see if my limited knowledge gets me anywhere even remotely near the mark. Alas, I fear it shall not! Still, it's a beautiful gun; the lock's a bit of a dodgy fit, but if my guess is right that's hardly a surprise. Is the ramrod real or false?

Atlantia · 22nd May 2011, 04:05 PM

I think it looks OK.
I assume it does have a hole from the lock pan to the main charge?
My first thoughts were Turkish, then I thought possibly Afghan.

rickystl · 22nd May 2011, 05:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kahnjar1

Hi Rick,
Can you pls post a pic of those marks on the barrel?
Looks a nice piece.
Regards Stuart

Here it is. It's really hard to see due to the patina on the barrel. Rick.

rickystl · 22nd May 2011, 05:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RDGAC

I'm going to stick my neck out and say Turkish/Ottoman, modernish, for tourists. Just because I want to see if my limited knowledge gets me anywhere even remotely near the mark. Alas, I fear it shall not! Still, it's a beautiful gun; the lock's a bit of a dodgy fit, but if my guess is right that's hardly a surprise. Is the ramrod real or false?

No, not a tourist item. The vent hole is drilled at the correct position. I took the lock off. It's definately a local made item. But, it has the correct half and full cock notches. I can tell this gun has been fired. Also, notice the frizzen has been re-soled sometime in the past. This was commonly done after extensive shooting. The ramrod channel is false, as most Turkish pistols. Rick.

rickystl · 22nd May 2011, 06:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Atlantia

I think it looks OK.
I assume it does have a hole from the lock pan to the main charge?
My first thoughts were Turkish, then I thought possibly Afghan.

That was my thoughts exactly. The stock carvings look Turkish. The pearl inlays make me think Afghan. The brass mounts could be either. Hmmmm.
Rick.

rickystl · 22nd May 2011, 06:42 PM

Well, I disassembled the gun. I found a couple small marks on the bottom of the barrel. Have no idea what they mean? The barrel does have the vent hole drilled through. And a breechplug. I can tell by the interior view of the lock that the gun has been fired. Anyway, thanks for looking. Rick.

kahnjar1 · 23rd May 2011, 07:08 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rickystl

Here it is. It's really hard to see due to the patina on the barrel. Rick.

If you can improve the contrast on the two large marks I will have a look thru my books to see if I can identify them. Looks like a lion?? and a crown?? but not clear enough for sure identification.
Regards Stuart

rickystl · 23rd May 2011, 03:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kahnjar1

If you can improve the contrast on the two large marks I will have a look thru my books to see if I can identify them. Looks like a lion?? and a crown?? but not clear enough for sure identification.
Regards Stuart

Thanks Stuart. I'll try to clean up the barrel a bit and get some close-ups. Thanks, Rick.

libra · 23rd May 2011, 06:42 PM

Hi Rick!
Very nice pistol .I believe that is an authentic one, possibly made in balkan area for the ottoman market.
The lock doesn't have the quality of European locks, it reminds work made in Balkans.
The barrel it looks European to me but I can't see the marks very well.
The only thing that looks new to me is the mother of pearl that has on the back side.
Can you please share the dimensions of it? Those pistols usually are 36cm to 40cm.
After all you have an excelent pistol.Well done!!

Aristeidis.

fernando · 23rd May 2011, 08:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kahnjar1

If you can improve the contrast on the two large marks I will have a look thru my books to see if I can identify them. Looks like a lion?? and a crown?? but not clear enough for sure identification.
Regards Stuart

Why not just vague decorations to resemble European marks?
We know they do that; like sometimes we see scribbles in lock plates with similar intentions

.

rickystl · 23rd May 2011, 10:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by libra

Hi Rick!
Very nice pistol .I believe that is an authentic one, possibly made in balkan area for the ottoman market.
The lock doesn't have the quality of European locks, it reminds work made in Balkans.
The barrel it looks European to me but I can't see the marks very well.
The only thing that looks new to me is the mother of pearl that has on the back side.
Can you please share the dimensions of it? Those pistols usually are 36cm to 40cm.
After all you have an excelent pistol.Well done!!

Aristeidis.

Hi Aristeidis. Thanks for your comments. I don't have the pistol in front of me at the moment. The barrel is about 30cm (12") long. You are correct. The lock is not made to typical European standards. What is unusual, is that the lock maker seems like he was trying to copy the smaller English style, round face lock vs. the larger flat faced locks you see on most Turkish pistols.
While the pearl looks new, it's obvious the carving around it was designed to accept it. I'm going to try to get a better picture of the barrel markings.
One of the reasons I was attracted to the pistol is that I could not figure it out

You may be right, Balkan made for the Turkish market. Thanks for looking. Rick.

rickystl · 23rd May 2011, 10:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by fernando

Why not just vague decorations to resemble European marks?
We know they do that; like sometimes we see scribbles in lock plates with similar intentions

.

Hi Fernando. Oh, you most certainly are correct about the barrel markings. I'll try to get a better pic. Rick.

RDGAC · 27th May 2011, 12:53 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rickystl

No, not a tourist item. The vent hole is drilled at the correct position. I took the lock off. It's definately a local made item. But, it has the correct half and full cock notches. I can tell this gun has been fired. Also, notice the frizzen has been re-soled sometime in the past. This was commonly done after extensive shooting. The ramrod channel is false, as most Turkish pistols. Rick.

And I seem to have been totally wrong. Er... huzzah, I suppose! If nothing else, I tried!

21st May 2011, 08:38 PM	#1
rickystl Member Join Date: Jul 2010 Location: St. Louis, MO area. Posts: 1,633	Pistol for Identification I bought this on my trip to Timonium. I am fairly confident it is Turkish. Do others here agree? At first glance the lock looks English. But it's not. It was made locally. No markings inside or out. But the stock archetecture, carving, and brass mounts also appear Turkish. I was hoping someone on the Forum could identify the markings on the brass mounts. Thanks for any help. Rick. Attached Images

21st May 2011, 08:42 PM	#2
rickystl Member Join Date: Jul 2010 Location: St. Louis, MO area. Posts: 1,633	Additional Photos Additional photos of pistol. Attached Images

22nd May 2011, 06:42 PM	#9
rickystl Member Join Date: Jul 2010 Location: St. Louis, MO area. Posts: 1,633	Well, I disassembled the gun. I found a couple small marks on the bottom of the barrel. Have no idea what they mean? The barrel does have the vent hole drilled through. And a breechplug. I can tell by the interior view of the lock that the gun has been fired. Anyway, thanks for looking. Rick. Attached Images

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21st May 2011, 11:22 PM	#3
kahnjar1 Member Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: CHRISTCHURCH NEW ZEALAND Posts: 2,811	Hi Rick, Can you pls post a pic of those marks on the barrel? Looks a nice piece. Regards Stuart

22nd May 2011, 03:08 PM	#4
RDGAC Member Join Date: Mar 2010 Location: York, UK Posts: 167	I'm going to stick my neck out and say Turkish/Ottoman, modernish, for tourists. Just because I want to see if my limited knowledge gets me anywhere even remotely near the mark. Alas, I fear it shall not! Still, it's a beautiful gun; the lock's a bit of a dodgy fit, but if my guess is right that's hardly a surprise. Is the ramrod real or false?

22nd May 2011, 04:05 PM	#5
Atlantia Member Join Date: Jun 2008 Location: The Sharp end Posts: 2,928	I think it looks OK. I assume it does have a hole from the lock pan to the main charge? My first thoughts were Turkish, then I thought possibly Afghan.

23rd May 2011, 06:42 PM	#12
libra Member Join Date: Jan 2009 Location: GREECE Patras Posts: 40	Hi Rick! Very nice pistol .I believe that is an authentic one, possibly made in balkan area for the ottoman market. The lock doesn't have the quality of European locks, it reminds work made in Balkans. The barrel it looks European to me but I can't see the marks very well. The only thing that looks new to me is the mother of pearl that has on the back side. Can you please share the dimensions of it? Those pistols usually are 36cm to 40cm. After all you have an excelent pistol.Well done!! Aristeidis.