Collectibles or Cultural Heritage?

Turkoman.khan · 5th August 2025, 05:44 PM

Dear forum members,

I’d like to share a few reflections prompted by a recent article I read on Open OBJET. The featured object there is quite interesting and may be part of a broader trend: pieces from private collections are increasingly catching the attention of curators as “missing links,” helping to fill gaps in the study of Central Asian arms. Link: https://objet.art/as/articles/6888d38e3586bec80e3efe27

Personally, I’ve always questioned the true historical and cultural value of the objects we collect, particularly when it comes to antique arms. Is their worth found in craftsmanship, aesthetic beauty, or perhaps the legendary aura we project onto them? Are these objects truly part of our cultural heritage — or only a select few? Or are they simply "big boys’ toys"?

Should we be actively studying and documenting them, or simply preserving them temporarily before letting them go — without attaching our names or destinies to them?

What do you think?

Edster · 6th August 2025, 02:01 AM

Quote: Is their worth found in craftsmanship, aesthetic beauty, or perhaps the legendary aura we project onto them? Are these objects truly part of our cultural heritage Â— or only a select few? Or are they simply "big boysÂ’ toys"?

Should we be actively studying and documenting them, or simply preserving them temporarily before letting them go Â— without attaching our names or destinies to them?

What do you think?[/QUOTE]

My answer is YES we should and they are. As a limited data base, I think it really boils down to why we visit the Forum as individuals: collectors, students, researchers, lurkers, members of the Forum Community, or just passingly interested in antique arms. It also depends on their collecting goals, means, age and personality. The Forum really has relatively few active collectors. Many have an accumulation of weapons from over the years. Most viewers are just interested in the discussions and dialogue.

As a daily lurker I read posts from all the above. Collectors may accumulate via types and sometimes their variations. Some buy what may suit their current fancy and then may ask the Experts about origin, age, etc. Some few collect types that may support their ethnic background or a regional or historic interest. Most of us cannot afford the really high end items in museums of elite specialized collections.

I think few if any care about personal cultural heritage as the original. owners are unknown and long dead. Interesting culture, but not my own.

Best regards,
Ed

Tim Simmons · 6th August 2025, 05:53 AM

Objects that take your mind to different worlds like a time machine. Some may also appeal to the eye more than others.

David R · 6th August 2025, 06:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tim Simmons

Objects that take your mind to different worlds like a time machine. Some may also appeal to the eye more than others.

Yup, you got it!

RobT · Yesterday, 01:10 AM

“Personally, I’ve always questioned the true historical and cultural value of the objects we collect, particularly when it comes to antique arms. Is their worth found in craftsmanship, aesthetic beauty, or perhaps the legendary aura we project onto them? Are these objects truly part of our cultural heritage — or only a select few? Or are they simply "big boys’ toys”?”

I don’t think it is possible for anyone to point to any other object in the world that holds a cross cultural position equal to that of the sword. For example, religious texts are only highly regarded within the confines of their particular religion. Outside of that religion they may be regarded variously as irrelevant, nonsensical, incorrect, or even blasphemous.
The importance of the sword goes beyond “legendary aura”. The sword is the soul of the samurai, the defender (and promulgator) of the faith, the sword of justice, the fateful lightning of the lord, etc.
Until fairly recently, the sword (or its smaller iteration, the knife/dagger), was part of entitled male attire around the world. In many instances, just by looking at the weapon worn, a viewer could deduce the wearer’s group affiliation and the sumptuousness of the weapon accurately displayed the wearer’s wealth and position in society.
When these weapons were openly worn, men were expected to be able to use them. Permission to carry these items stated plainly, “I am a fully enfranchised male in this culture and, as such, under certain culturally proscribed conditions, I have the right to kill another person”. Logically, this right also exposed the wearer to the possibility of the same fate. It follows that an item embodying these potentials and displayed so prominently as part of male dress would have all the craftsmanship and aesthetic beauty the culture could supply and the wearer could afford.
If you are asking whether or not the weapons collected are part of the cultural heritage of the individual collector, the answer is, in most cases, probably not. If however, you are asking if these weapons we collect are part of our cultural heritage as humans, then the answer is undeniably (for better or for worse) yes. Art transcends culture and the greater the art, the greater the transcendence. They are not just “big boys’ toys”. They are vitally important items of human material culture.

Sincerely,
RobT

Turkoman.khan · Yesterday, 04:06 PM

Dear gentlemen,

Thank you for your straightforward answers — I completely agree. I have pretty much the same feelings. This forum is a great platform for intellectual engagement, and while I enjoy observing the flow of discussions, I’d like to raise a few more questions.

Essentially, what we have here is a space for exchanging opinions on certain subjects. Someone introduces a topic — becomes a kind of newsmaker — and others reflect or contribute their knowledge. Each thread grows to a certain extent, often containing both valuable and not-so-relevant information. But does it actually generate new knowledge or expertise?

You can easily come across topics that have gathered thousands of posts over a decade but are now abandoned. Only the dedicated and fantastic technical support from Vikingsword keeps this archive accessible. Personally, I’ve stumbled upon some fantastic insights buried under heaps of less valuable content — mostly recycled versions of what's already published in a handful of outdated books. These sources are rarely reviewed critically, and when they are, it's usually in the style of casual “pub talk,” not reaching a wider academic or public audience.

So my question is: am I the only one who thinks about this? Or do some of you occasionally feel the same?

5th August 2025, 05:44 PM	#1
Turkoman.khan Member Join Date: Apr 2023 Posts: 120	Collectibles or Cultural Heritage? Dear forum members, I’d like to share a few reflections prompted by a recent article I read on Open OBJET. The featured object there is quite interesting and may be part of a broader trend: pieces from private collections are increasingly catching the attention of curators as “missing links,” helping to fill gaps in the study of Central Asian arms. Link: https://objet.art/as/articles/6888d38e3586bec80e3efe27 Personally, I’ve always questioned the true historical and cultural value of the objects we collect, particularly when it comes to antique arms. Is their worth found in craftsmanship, aesthetic beauty, or perhaps the legendary aura we project onto them? Are these objects truly part of our cultural heritage — or only a select few? Or are they simply "big boys’ toys"? Should we be actively studying and documenting them, or simply preserving them temporarily before letting them go — without attaching our names or destinies to them? What do you think? Attached Images

Yesterday, 01:10 AM	#5
RobT Member Join Date: Mar 2005 Posts: 564	No Doubt Important “Personally, I’ve always questioned the true historical and cultural value of the objects we collect, particularly when it comes to antique arms. Is their worth found in craftsmanship, aesthetic beauty, or perhaps the legendary aura we project onto them? Are these objects truly part of our cultural heritage — or only a select few? Or are they simply "big boys’ toys”?” I don’t think it is possible for anyone to point to any other object in the world that holds a cross cultural position equal to that of the sword. For example, religious texts are only highly regarded within the confines of their particular religion. Outside of that religion they may be regarded variously as irrelevant, nonsensical, incorrect, or even blasphemous. The importance of the sword goes beyond “legendary aura”. The sword is the soul of the samurai, the defender (and promulgator) of the faith, the sword of justice, the fateful lightning of the lord, etc. Until fairly recently, the sword (or its smaller iteration, the knife/dagger), was part of entitled male attire around the world. In many instances, just by looking at the weapon worn, a viewer could deduce the wearer’s group affiliation and the sumptuousness of the weapon accurately displayed the wearer’s wealth and position in society. When these weapons were openly worn, men were expected to be able to use them. Permission to carry these items stated plainly, “I am a fully enfranchised male in this culture and, as such, under certain culturally proscribed conditions, I have the right to kill another person”. Logically, this right also exposed the wearer to the possibility of the same fate. It follows that an item embodying these potentials and displayed so prominently as part of male dress would have all the craftsmanship and aesthetic beauty the culture could supply and the wearer could afford. If you are asking whether or not the weapons collected are part of the cultural heritage of the individual collector, the answer is, in most cases, probably not. If however, you are asking if these weapons we collect are part of our cultural heritage as humans, then the answer is undeniably (for better or for worse) yes. Art transcends culture and the greater the art, the greater the transcendence. They are not just “big boys’ toys”. They are vitally important items of human material culture. Sincerely, RobT

6th August 2025, 02:01 AM	#2
Edster Member Join Date: Oct 2010 Posts: 422	Quote: Is their worth found in craftsmanship, aesthetic beauty, or perhaps the legendary aura we project onto them? Are these objects truly part of our cultural heritage Â— or only a select few? Or are they simply "big boysÂ’ toys"? Should we be actively studying and documenting them, or simply preserving them temporarily before letting them go Â— without attaching our names or destinies to them? What do you think?[/QUOTE] My answer is YES we should and they are. As a limited data base, I think it really boils down to why we visit the Forum as individuals: collectors, students, researchers, lurkers, members of the Forum Community, or just passingly interested in antique arms. It also depends on their collecting goals, means, age and personality. The Forum really has relatively few active collectors. Many have an accumulation of weapons from over the years. Most viewers are just interested in the discussions and dialogue. As a daily lurker I read posts from all the above. Collectors may accumulate via types and sometimes their variations. Some buy what may suit their current fancy and then may ask the Experts about origin, age, etc. Some few collect types that may support their ethnic background or a regional or historic interest. Most of us cannot afford the really high end items in museums of elite specialized collections. I think few if any care about personal cultural heritage as the original. owners are unknown and long dead. Interesting culture, but not my own. Best regards, Ed

6th August 2025, 05:53 AM	#3
Tim Simmons Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: What is still UK Posts: 5,876	Objects that take your mind to different worlds like a time machine. Some may also appeal to the eye more than others.

Yesterday, 04:06 PM	#6
Turkoman.khan Member Join Date: Apr 2023 Posts: 120	Dear gentlemen, Thank you for your straightforward answers — I completely agree. I have pretty much the same feelings. This forum is a great platform for intellectual engagement, and while I enjoy observing the flow of discussions, I’d like to raise a few more questions. Essentially, what we have here is a space for exchanging opinions on certain subjects. Someone introduces a topic — becomes a kind of newsmaker — and others reflect or contribute their knowledge. Each thread grows to a certain extent, often containing both valuable and not-so-relevant information. But does it actually generate new knowledge or expertise? You can easily come across topics that have gathered thousands of posts over a decade but are now abandoned. Only the dedicated and fantastic technical support from Vikingsword keeps this archive accessible. Personally, I’ve stumbled upon some fantastic insights buried under heaps of less valuable content — mostly recycled versions of what's already published in a handful of outdated books. These sources are rarely reviewed critically, and when they are, it's usually in the style of casual “pub talk,” not reaching a wider academic or public audience. So my question is: am I the only one who thinks about this? Or do some of you occasionally feel the same?