King fisher hilt kriss ? Really recent or not ?

francantolin · 26th May 2023, 01:28 PM

Hello dear members,
I got this dagger and I'm not a specialist at all in keris.
I hesitate between tourist made really recent stuff and real item:
The blade, wood parts seems old.
Scabbard and hilt seems made of brass.
It's a large model, more than 60cms long.

Interesting caracter for the hilt :
Looks like a nobile man with a fish,
Fisher king ?

Interested Party · 26th May 2023, 05:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by francantolin

Interesting caracter for the hilt :
Looks like a nobile man with a fish,
Fisher king ?

The other questions I will leave for the knowledgeable. He is holding a shanka (conch shell). While many carried and used this auspicious symbol it is associated with Vishnu in particular. The shell is normally held in his right hand.

francantolin · 26th May 2023, 06:23 PM

Thank's a lot for the conch and Vishnu idea,
If it is Vishnu, he can have his four arms but no other attribute /symbols like mace, chakra or lotus
( maybe just 2 arms and 2 legs !)

Last thing: maybe it is gilded

kai · 26th May 2023, 06:56 PM

Hello Franc,

I agree with IP on the conch shell.

I'm pretty sure this hilt was never gilded. It's a more recent style from Java copying keris Bali during the second half of the 20th century, I believe; craftsmanship is usually low to abysmal and this seems to be one of the better examples.

Its collectability rates low in my book though since this is neither a traditional hilt style nor modern keris art.

Regards,
Kai

Interested Party · 26th May 2023, 07:07 PM

Thanks for the additional pictures. The long nails on the left hand are interesting. Looking again the eyes are very round maybe implying less virtue. Of course, I could be applying cultural values that do not apply to this object. I am looking forward to the experts weighing in! Thanks, Kai, for the vote of confidence.

francantolin · 26th May 2023, 08:35 PM

It must be battara Bayu, ( with a conch...?...)
two arms and two legs...
Found some pictures,
Two from another post in Vikingsword
The last from the MET ,
Sure, another quality...

A. G. Maisey · 26th May 2023, 11:56 PM

Kai is absolutely correct in what he has written.

This keris uses a Javanese blade, it was put together in Jogja, the man who was the principal fabricator of this hilt style passed about 25 years ago, he had made these in his younger years, and probably his father before him.

There was more than one maker, I only knew the man I have mentioned.

I used the word "fabricator". The metal shell was made by one man, the fabricator, the embossing work was done by a second man, the chaser.

Because these were very low cost tourist items, only low grade chasers were used, thus these hilts are never of any quality.

No cultural values can be read into this keris, nor the components of its dress. They were made for dealers and fed into the market by general dealers, not by anybody associated with keris.

Some were sold locally in Jogja, others went to Jakarta & Bali.

26th May 2023, 01:28 PM	#1
francantolin Member Join Date: Sep 2014 Posts: 877	King fisher hilt kriss ? Really recent or not ? Hello dear members, I got this dagger and I'm not a specialist at all in keris. I hesitate between tourist made really recent stuff and real item: The blade, wood parts seems old. Scabbard and hilt seems made of brass. It's a large model, more than 60cms long. Interesting caracter for the hilt : Looks like a nobile man with a fish, Fisher king ? Attached Images

26th May 2023, 06:23 PM	#3
francantolin Member Join Date: Sep 2014 Posts: 877	Thank's a lot for the conch and Vishnu idea, If it is Vishnu, he can have his four arms but no other attribute /symbols like mace, chakra or lotus ( maybe just 2 arms and 2 legs !) Last thing: maybe it is gilded Attached Images

26th May 2023, 06:56 PM	#4
kai Member Join Date: Apr 2005 Posts: 3,254	Was expecting something different from the thread's subject line... Hello Franc, I agree with IP on the conch shell. I'm pretty sure this hilt was never gilded. It's a more recent style from Java copying keris Bali during the second half of the 20th century, I believe; craftsmanship is usually low to abysmal and this seems to be one of the better examples. Its collectability rates low in my book though since this is neither a traditional hilt style nor modern keris art. Regards, Kai

26th May 2023, 08:35 PM	#6
francantolin Member Join Date: Sep 2014 Posts: 877	It must be battara Bayu, ( with a conch...?...) two arms and two legs... Found some pictures, Two from another post in Vikingsword The last from the MET , Sure, another quality... Attached Images

26th May 2023, 07:07 PM	#5
Interested Party Member Join Date: Dec 2019 Location: Eastern Sierra Posts: 471	Thanks for the additional pictures. The long nails on the left hand are interesting. Looking again the eyes are very round maybe implying less virtue. Of course, I could be applying cultural values that do not apply to this object. I am looking forward to the experts weighing in! Thanks, Kai, for the vote of confidence.

26th May 2023, 11:56 PM	#7
A. G. Maisey Member Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 6,893	Kai is absolutely correct in what he has written. This keris uses a Javanese blade, it was put together in Jogja, the man who was the principal fabricator of this hilt style passed about 25 years ago, he had made these in his younger years, and probably his father before him. There was more than one maker, I only knew the man I have mentioned. I used the word "fabricator". The metal shell was made by one man, the fabricator, the embossing work was done by a second man, the chaser. Because these were very low cost tourist items, only low grade chasers were used, thus these hilts are never of any quality. No cultural values can be read into this keris, nor the components of its dress. They were made for dealers and fed into the market by general dealers, not by anybody associated with keris. Some were sold locally in Jogja, others went to Jakarta & Bali.