Ottoman hancer / court dagger?

[estcrh]

Any opinions as to how old this may be. It is a very heavy dagger, 18 in. long with a 12.5 in. blade.

[mariusgmioc]

Very impressive dagger! Congratulations!

Is it wootz?

18th century if not earlier?!

I am not sure the the name "hancer" is the correct one, and I would like to learn more about this.

[Kubur]

Ah ah, clever, I was interested by this one!
You should post the scabbard too.
It's an interesting piece done only with old and original parts.
Hilt ottoman jambiya 19th c.
Blade Ottoman so-called court dagger 18th c.
and scabbard Ottoman kinjal 19th c.
It's really a nice object, but it's a combinaison of stuffs.
You can see that the blade is too small for the scabbard.
The hilt is too big for the blade and the hilt is too big for the scabbard.
Plus a nail in the hilt to fix the blade.
The question is when this strange combinaison was done?

[mariusgmioc]

Originally Posted by Kubur

Ah ah, clever, I was interested by this one!
You should post the scabbard too.
It's an interesting piece done only with old and original parts.
Hilt ottoman jambiya 19th c.
Blade Ottoman so-called court dagger 18th c.
and scabbard Ottoman kinjal 19th c.
It's really a nice object, but it's a combinaison of stuffs.
You can see that the blade is too small for the scabbard.
The hilt is too big for the blade and the hilt is too big for the scabbard.
Plus a nail in the hilt to fix the blade.
The question is when this strange combinaison was done?

You may be right, but I don't find the hilt too big relative to the blade.

Also the checkered pattern of the koftgari is the same style both on the hilt and on the blade, and appears to be contemporary with both.

[Kubur]

Originally Posted by mariusgmioc

You may be right, but I don't find the hilt too big relative to the blade.

Also the checkered pattern of the koftgari is the same style both on the hilt and on the blade, and appears to be contemporary with both.

Like that my friend

[Kubur]

and that...

[estcrh]

Originally Posted by Kubur

Ah ah, clever, I was interested by this one!
You should post the scabbard too.
It's an interesting piece done only with old and original parts.
Hilt ottoman jambiya 19th c.
Blade Ottoman so-called court dagger 18th c.
and scabbard Ottoman kinjal 19th c.
It's really a nice object, but it's a combinaison of stuffs.
You can see that the blade is too small for the scabbard.
The hilt is too big for the blade and the hilt is too big for the scabbard.
Plus a nail in the hilt to fix the blade.
The question is when this strange combinaison was done?

The hilt does look like a Jambiya hilt, the wood scabbard core fits the blade perfectly but the tip is broken off, the metal cover is a bit crude, no doubt just basic work. The melding of the blade to the hilt appears to be old, the blade and hilt are solid and if you look at images of other daggers of this type, some have the hilts riveted in the same place were this one is riveted. The hilt fits my hand perfectly and is a very good match for the length of the blade and it is very well balanced as the blade is quite heavy.

To me it appears as if someone made this into a fighting dagger at some point in the past, it probably had an ivory or stone hilt originally. The current hilt is a much better hilt for actual use as many of the hilts normally associated with these types of daggers look to be a bit small.

The seller had this listed at an extremely low "buy it now" price instead of auctioning it, probably a mistake on his part, plus his images were really bad. I have always wanted one of these blades but have not wanted to pay the high price usually asked, this was a fraction of the price compared to a pristine example.

Here is a link to some images of other examples.
https://www.pinterest.com/worldantiq...-court-dagger/

[estcrh]

Here is a jambiya with a similar hilt.

[mariusgmioc]

I don't know why I have the feeling it is wootz.

The scabbard is clearly a recent addition but the hilt, whether original or most probably not, is a very good match to the blade.

[estcrh]

Originally Posted by Kubur

a nail in the hilt to fix the blade.

What you call a "nail" appears to me to be a rivet, hammered into place, it just does not have a decorative cover to hide it.

Here is a traditionally hilted Ottoman court dagger with a damaged hilt, this is probably what happened to the one I just bought, the hilt was damaged and replaced with a jambiya hilt. This is a rare image showing the tang within the hilt.

[mariusgmioc]

or another one in better shape

[Oliver Pinchot]

The word "hancer" is modern Turkish and just means a dagger. It is from Arabic "khanjar," and is pronounced "HON-jer." Academically, it is used to distinguish Ottoman daggers from others.

Incidentally, the well-known Ottoman yataghan (yatagan, with a soft G in Turkish) takes its name for the Turkish verb yatmak , which means to lie, or repose. This is due to the fact that the yatagan was typically worn perpendicular, or nearly perpendicular, to the waist.

[estcrh]

Originally Posted by mariusgmioc

or another one in better shape

Nice one, is it yours?

[estcrh]

Originally Posted by mariusgmioc

Very impressive dagger! Congratulations!

Is it wootz?

18th century if not earlier?!

I am not sure the the name "hancer" is the correct one, and I would like to learn more about this.

I am not sure if it is wootz, I can not see any pattern but the blade edges look like they were sand papered and the middle has to much patina to see anything.

As for "hancer", this name is used by some to describe these Ottoman daggers, others use "court dagger", its just a name for categorization.