Waved blades debate - combat value

[Radu Transylvanicus]

Many blades from many parts of the world are forged waved, from the kris and keris of the Malay world to European daggers to Hindu blades. I came to the conclusion of the waved blade being pure fashion statement but I want to challenge other opinions of any opinions, pros and cons of a waved blade. In European culture wavy blades seem to retain the names like “flamberge”, "flambards" or "flammards", basically meaning flamming.
The only difference is perhaps that a same sword with a waved blade would rather give a more of a chopping cut versus a traditional slashing cut of a standard blade.
Few examples:
1. A Keris luk (property of Arts d’Orient www.artsdorient.com)
2. Photo of a Transylvanian dagger from the 17th century at the Timisoara Museum
3. A 3d screenshot of a Landesknecht “flamberge” blade two hand sword
http://www.artsdorient.com/images/RIF_2240.JPG

http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/attach...tid=1585&stc=1

http://www.5stardeal.com/website/swo.../20-ics010.jpg

[TVV]

This is a bit aside, but I wonder if there is an African edged weapon with a wavy blade? I, so far, do not think I have seen one neither in Spring's book, nor in this forum, which is probably strange considering the great variety and symbolism associated with weapons from Africa.

[Rick]

Putting all symbolism aside :
As a thrusting weapon I'd imagine that a keris luk (wavy) would do more damage to your innards than a straight blade ; might make a larger entrance wound too ; but the point (no pun intended Jose ) may be moot as it only takes 2.5 inches of penetration to effect a fatal wound to the torso .

The perception that the kris of the Moros in its waved form is more demanding for effective use seems prevalent ; but that does not tell us whether if used properly the wound was more devastating or not . A wavy kris has a longer edge than a straight one and is used differently than the Keris of Jawa .

With the huge European Zwiehanders the waves might make parrying a pike thrust a little easier .

[Radu Transylvanicus]

Originally Posted by Rick

With the huge European Zwiehanders the waves might make parrying a pike thrust a little easier .

Thats one thing what the Swiss Landesknecht mecenaries and their "zwweihander" were famous for, chopping trough the pikes.

[Emanuel]

Hello Radu, hello all,

Wouldn't wavy blades be more effective at draw cuts than straight blades? Much like the falx and all those sickle weapons, the pulling/cutting motion would pull the convex blade deeper into the object being cut, no?
For beasts like the zweihander draw-cuts may not be feasible but how about the smaller blades?
IMO the waves of these large flamberge swords were more aesthetic - the symbol of Archangel Michael's flaming sword in battle would be an awesome sight- than functional. Is the parying advantage of the wavy blades that important, or is it negligible?

Regards,
Manolo

[Radu Transylvanicus]

CONCLUSION - ITS MORE FOR THE ESTHETICS ! Unless any groundbreaking info, its a closed chapter !

[manicdj]

Originally Posted by Rick

Putting all symbolism aside :
As a thrusting weapon I'd imagine that a keris luk (wavy) would do more damage to your innards than a straight blade ; might make a larger entrance wound too ; but the point (no pun intended Jose ) may be moot as it only takes 2.5 inches of penetration to effect a fatal wound to the torso .

The perception that the kris of the Moros in its waved form is more demanding for effective use seems prevalent ; but that does not tell us whether if used properly the wound was more devastating or not . A wavy kris has a longer edge than a straight one and is used differently than the Keris of Jawa .

With the huge European Zwiehanders the waves might make parrying a pike thrust a little easier .

I agree for 2.5 stab did its deed but,the wave, "cut/slice" left a wound be shallow or deep more prone to infection.
do to hobbie mishap "I found out the sharp way"

[manicdj]

I can say this, they look good on my wall " I get neat remarks about it", and all my buddys cant keep there fingers of it..

[Tim Simmons]

The only wavy African weapons I have seen are those of the Mahdist Sudan, versions of Indo/Persian tridents and the like, there could be a question as to whether they are all functional. Tim

[Freddy]

It's surely African and is it wavy enough ?

It's a throwing knife from the Zulgo tribe in East Sudan. Length : 53 cm. The handle is made from cloth.







Freddy

[Freddy]

Here are some others. Not in my collection, though



Both are also Zulgo (from the book 'Rare African Short Weapons' by Manfred A. Zirngibl).