pronunciation question: keris vs. kris

TikiD · 12th January 2009, 06:10 PM

Hello to all,

This may seem a stupid question, but I've read conflicting information about this and it's bothering me. Is "keris" pronounced the same as "kris," so that both sound like "kris" with one syllable? I've read in some places that "keris" is pronounced with two syllables with the second syllable being stressed, so that it sounds like "keh-REES."

Curious minds would like to know how to speak about the keris in public without making a public fool of self!

Thank you.

TikiD

Henk · 12th January 2009, 07:14 PM

TikiD,

If you pronounce keris as kris you won't make a public fool of yourself here in the Netherlands. Here we pronounce keris as kris. And most Dutch don't even know what you mean with keris. In most Dutch publications the keris is written down as Kris.

Tim Simmons · 12th January 2009, 07:18 PM

Untill being a member here I and most other British collectors always called them Kris also.

Rick · 12th January 2009, 08:28 PM

I once asked a woman from Malaka how she pronounced the word .
It was "k'rees" with just a trip of the tongue over the R .

Probably varies from region to region .

A. G. Maisey · 12th January 2009, 09:07 PM

You're pretty much spot-on with that description Rick.

In fact, the word "kris" has come into the English language and is listed by the Oxford Dictionary.

Since it has come into the English language, it is legitimate to give it an unaccented pronunciation. Whenever a native English speaker asks me for the "correct" pronunciation, I simply say that it is like the given name for a person:- "Chris".

Of course this "chris", or "kris" is too flat a pronunciation if it were to be used in an Indonesian context, but if we are speaking English, there is no necessity to try to imitate the accent used in speaking the Indonesian language.

This word has been represented a number of ways in European languages, the two spellings already mentioned can be extended to include "cris" and "creese".

In my household we normally conduct our conversations in three languages:- English is the dominant one, but we also use Indonesian and Javanese. Whenever I find it necessary to use an Indonesian or Javanese word when the rest of the speech is in English, I do not take much care with the accent, simply because it is too difficult, and in fact sounds weird to jump from a broad Australian accent to a foriegn accent.However, when the conversation is in Indonesian, I change my accent, and if I need to use an English word, I give it an Indonesian accented pronunciation. I have friends who are Italian, and Estonian, and Ukrainian, and they have told me they do a similar thing.

For a native English speaker the pronunciation of the word as "chris" is completely OK.

ganjawulung · 12th January 2009, 10:58 PM

IMHO, both words are correct from different views. Keris is Javanese and Indonesian pronounciation, and kris is English or other language than Indonesian pronounciation.

Indonesian tongue -- and mostly Javanese -- tends to add more vocal-syllabel to pronounce a certain word. Such as "spoor" (train) in Dutch language. The Javanese spells it as "sepur" for the same meaning. It is the same with "station" in English, or "station" (?) in Dutch. Javanese spells it as "setasiun".

But in "older" Javanese language, people used to find word -- written in one syllable, but actually must be spelled in two syllables, like "krta" (with special mark above the "r") which means "town". It must be spelled as "kerta". Or, "pakrti" as "pakarti"... Maybe too, for "kris" in old Javanese or Sanskrit which might be spelled as "keris".

GANJAWULUNG

12th January 2009, 06:10 PM	#1
TikiD Member Join Date: Aug 2005 Posts: 5	pronunciation question: keris vs. kris Hello to all, This may seem a stupid question, but I've read conflicting information about this and it's bothering me. Is "keris" pronounced the same as "kris," so that both sound like "kris" with one syllable? I've read in some places that "keris" is pronounced with two syllables with the second syllable being stressed, so that it sounds like "keh-REES." Curious minds would like to know how to speak about the keris in public without making a public fool of self! Thank you. TikiD

12th January 2009, 10:58 PM	#6
ganjawulung Member Join Date: May 2007 Location: J a k a r t a Posts: 991	IMHO, both words are correct from different views. Keris is Javanese and Indonesian pronounciation, and kris is English or other language than Indonesian pronounciation. Indonesian tongue -- and mostly Javanese -- tends to add more vocal-syllabel to pronounce a certain word. Such as "spoor" (train) in Dutch language. The Javanese spells it as "sepur" for the same meaning. It is the same with "station" in English, or "station" (?) in Dutch. Javanese spells it as "setasiun". But in "older" Javanese language, people used to find word -- written in one syllable, but actually must be spelled in two syllables, like "krta" (with special mark above the "r") which means "town". It must be spelled as "kerta". Or, "pakrti" as "pakarti"... Maybe too, for "kris" in old Javanese or Sanskrit which might be spelled as "keris". GANJAWULUNG Last edited by ganjawulung; 13th January 2009 at 02:43 AM.

12th January 2009, 07:14 PM	#2
Henk Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: The Netherlands Posts: 1,209	TikiD, If you pronounce keris as kris you won't make a public fool of yourself here in the Netherlands. Here we pronounce keris as kris. And most Dutch don't even know what you mean with keris. In most Dutch publications the keris is written down as Kris.

12th January 2009, 07:18 PM	#3
Tim Simmons Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: What is still UK Posts: 5,747	Untill being a member here I and most other British collectors always called them Kris also.

12th January 2009, 08:28 PM	#4
Rick Vikingsword Staff Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 6,268	I once asked a woman from Malaka how she pronounced the word . It was "k'rees" with just a trip of the tongue over the R . Probably varies from region to region .

12th January 2009, 09:07 PM	#5
A. G. Maisey Member Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 6,765	You're pretty much spot-on with that description Rick. In fact, the word "kris" has come into the English language and is listed by the Oxford Dictionary. Since it has come into the English language, it is legitimate to give it an unaccented pronunciation. Whenever a native English speaker asks me for the "correct" pronunciation, I simply say that it is like the given name for a person:- "Chris". Of course this "chris", or "kris" is too flat a pronunciation if it were to be used in an Indonesian context, but if we are speaking English, there is no necessity to try to imitate the accent used in speaking the Indonesian language. This word has been represented a number of ways in European languages, the two spellings already mentioned can be extended to include "cris" and "creese". In my household we normally conduct our conversations in three languages:- English is the dominant one, but we also use Indonesian and Javanese. Whenever I find it necessary to use an Indonesian or Javanese word when the rest of the speech is in English, I do not take much care with the accent, simply because it is too difficult, and in fact sounds weird to jump from a broad Australian accent to a foriegn accent.However, when the conversation is in Indonesian, I change my accent, and if I need to use an English word, I give it an Indonesian accented pronunciation. I have friends who are Italian, and Estonian, and Ukrainian, and they have told me they do a similar thing. For a native English speaker the pronunciation of the word as "chris" is completely OK.