1780's Brit/Irish/American? cavalry sword

[Will M]

After no success of narrowing down this sword or the maker "WYATT" I'll try here.
The inner guard and the scabbard mouth marked A/57 and the blade ricasso marked "WYATT", both are stamped in. A curved clip point blade 35 5/8" well sharpened.
Grip with iron wire over leather.
Found the sword in a Philadelphia auction and I did find a Wyatt silversmith around 1790 but no further info, could be coincidence. Seems too well made to be American though they did import blades etc.
So I have a name and know there were at least 57 swords and most likely more.
I know the NAM has over 200 1788p swords and I'm told they are not all the same but I don't live on that side of the pond to find out.

[fernando]

Originally Posted by Will M

After no success of narrowing down this sword or the maker "WYATT" I'll try here...

Hi Will, what do you mean by trying here ?
This is the third thread you start with this sword ... here .
Expecting to have better luck this time .

[Will M]

Time flew by and I totally forgot I posted previously.

Can remove this post as it has been already done

[fernando]

Oh no. Let it stay; no problem

[M ELEY]

I still say (from my earlier opinion!) that it's British, based on the quality, hilt style/wrap and bun-shaped pommel (makes me think of Scot/Brit baskethilts). The clipped blade is a little bit of a conundrum, matching more of an American aspect of Amer naval swords of that 1790-1800 era (think "Baltimore" cutlasses). Perhaps this was made in the UK for the Americans? Not unheard of, they were doing that even when we were at war wit them!! Merchants had no such quarrels. Still, as you yourself pointed out, there are some finely made American pieces, especially post Revolution. At this period, Rose and Prahl were getting started making some of the best!

[Jim McDougall]

Hi Will,
I'm glad you posted it again!!!! I must have missed the other posts.
Anyway, we don't have a limit one to a customer and trust me, I make lots of misteakes getting worse every year.

As Mark has well and observantly noted, this example does look like British hilt components, and that bun shaped pommel is seen on British basket hilt cavalry swords c. 1750+ (Neumann, p.70, 27.S).
The guard is the characteristic 'four slot' guard of 1760s-80s, but with lateral branches added, as on varying examples. (Neumann p.179, 352.S).

It must be remembered that in these times, people of the American colonies were actually still quite British, and weapons and components were of course remarkably mixed. Innovative smiths and various artisans in the Colonies assembled many weapons using components available .

While most hilts British I have seen have the four slot guard without the branchs, usually the tall olive pommel, and usually straight backsword blades.
The 1788 patterns were well established as far as the light cavalry sabres but the so called 'heavy' cavalry (dragoon) types sometimes thought of as M1788 remain unconfirmed. There were of course variations with the lateral bars or even more complex 'basket' design.
These were pre-regulation (that began 1796) so variation was typical.

The blade with the curious clipped point (termed 'pandour point' in Europe) were it seems well known on hangers and sabres in Europe. In Neumann, I could find no comparative examples, but am inclined to think this may well have been a blade from a European sabre, probably mounted with a British hilt in America in these times.

While the British seemed to retain their straight blades, the Americans favored the curved. The stamping of the name on the ricasso seems to be an American proclivity. In Nuemann ( 316.S, p167) a hanger whose blade had similar wide single fuller along back of blade is stamped at ricasso POTTER.
While I cannot find Wyatt among listed smiths, silversmiths et al often furbished arms as required I believe .

[Will M]

Thanks very much for the replies. I was hoping the name would shed some light on the sword, but to no avail.
It is marked A/57 which appears to me as a British system of marking, possibly carried on by Americans at this time?
I was hoping to find another somewhere but nothing has surfaced.
I can't help but think an identical sword is sitting in a museum or collection that I may never find.
As someone pointed out before the sword has been sharpened and maintained sharp. It still holds a cutting edge with a once over could be a razor.
Could have been the sword of a famous cavalry regiment, can only surmise.

[Jim McDougall]

Originally Posted by Will M

Thanks very much for the replies. I was hoping the name would shed some light on the sword, but to no avail.
It is marked A/57 which appears to me as a British system of marking, possibly carried on by Americans at this time?
I was hoping to find another somewhere but nothing has surfaced.
I can't help but think an identical sword is sitting in a museum or collection that I may never find.
As someone pointed out before the sword has been sharpened and maintained sharp. It still holds a cutting edge with a once over could be a razor.
Could have been the sword of a famous cavalry regiment, can only surmise.

As mentioned, 'Americans' in these times were effectively British colonized in America. Naturally it is quite plausible that a system of marking weapons in accord with British ones is possible.It seems somewhat determined that these components are British and thus retained original markings and the scabbard throat may well have been as well. The leather on the grip seems remarkably fresh as if restored using wire wrap consistant with period.
Is it possible a new leather scabbard may have been sewn in period to the existing scabbard throat?

As for silversmiths refurbishing swords from components, it should be noted that Harold Peterson wrote a companion book to his "The American Sword" on American silver hilted swords. It would stand to reason that while they were focused on fashioned silvered hilts, they had access to many components and were known to have exchanged and acquired items such as pommels between vendors.
The production of ersatz weaponry in these times is well known as such industry was virtually in its infancy and established makers and armourers were quite limited.

It would be a considerable leap to align this sword with any particular unit, as while there are records of a number of organized regiments in the Continental Army, the numbers of independent groups is believed far more substantial and mostly not officially recorded. Naturally in many cases, despite the obviously historically known overt instances of rebellion, much was covert insurgency and purposely unrecorded.

[CutlassCollector]

Hi,

I thought I'd check out the list of British Sword Cutlers in Volume 2 of Swords for Sea service (not just naval).
Its a large list - many entries and even has an Irish section but sorry to say Wyatt does not appear anywhere.

Regards CC