German sword for coment

[serdar]

Its German, its very nice, high quality blade and steel, it has passau marks!? (Im not sure), end of 16 begining of 17 century? annnddd thats all i know.

Any info is wellcome.

[serdar]

P

[corrado26]

I do not know wether this is a German sword or not, but what I know is that the blade is a Toledo one. The "T"-mark is definite.

[Merenti]

Hey Serdar, What you're showing here is a beautiful sword, and you're right. It's described in literature as a German sword. It usually has a mix of different brands (Toledo/Solingen). The blade usually has the words "Me fecit solingen." It can be dated to around 1620-1660. It was probably carried by rondarts.

[serdar]

Originally Posted by Merenti

Hey Serdar, What you're showing here is a beautiful sword, and you're right. It's described in literature as a German sword. It usually has a mix of different brands (Toledo/Solingen). The blade usually has the words "Me fecit solingen." It can be dated to around 1620-1660. It was probably carried by rondarts.

Thank you on an info Merenti, i saw those kind of blades, me fecit solingen, what do you think are the crosses makers mark allso, or it has to do with religious content?

[Radboud]

Hi Serder, thanks for showing this sword. Is it from your collection?

They're a great sword and appear to have a long service history. Often associated with naval use, this is likely incorrect though as they are quite a common type with lots of examples out there. They are also surprisingly uniform given the time they're from.

The Royal Armouries online catalogue lists at least three examples:

IX.172

IX.182

IX.184

I think this one is a composite

Plus there are several in the Dutch National Military Museum.

Forum member Cathy Brimage started a good topic on these with comments by Dutch military historian and author J.P. Puype, who theorised that these were cavalry swords.

Certainly in the catalogue "Van Maurits naar Munster - tactiek en triomf van het Staatse leger" by J.P. Puype & A.A. Wiekart they show one on p.g. 102 described as Broadsword for Cavalry circa 1585 - 1600 with the note that the had a long service life.

Personally, they seem short for cavalry use, but I suspect that there is a Dutch connection as the fledgling nation came out of the 80 years of war with the Spanish.

On your sword the Crown over OT mark seems to be fairly prevalent on the examples I've seen, and it is present on the example I have. I know it's popular to associate every T under a crown stamp as being from Toledo, but I doubt that is the case here. Why stamp the blade "Made in Solingen" if it was made in Toledo when the popular trend was to forge blades as having been made in Toledo?

[Radboud]

Taking another look at the sword you posted, Serdar, I have some concerns about the authenticity of the blade. The Ricasso is too simple compared to the other examples I've seen, the execution of the central fuller looks wrong, and the Crown over OT is offset to one side when all the examples I've seen place the stamps in the middle just above the tang.

Also, why does it say "ME FECIT" on both sides of the blade? That's saying "Made in" and Made in". It's meaning less.

[serdar]

Originally Posted by Radboud

Hi Serder, thanks for showing this sword. Is it from your collection?

They're a great sword and appear to have a long service history. Often associated with naval use, this is likely incorrect though as they are quite a common type with lots of examples out there. They are also surprisingly uniform given the time they're from.

The Royal Armouries online catalogue lists at least three examples:

IX.172

IX.182

IX.184

I think this one is a composite

Plus there are several in the Dutch National Military Museum.

Forum member Cathy Brimage started a good topic on these with comments by Dutch military historian and author J.P. Puype, who theorised that these were cavalry swords.

Certainly in the catalogue "Van Maurits naar Munster - tactiek en triomf van het Staatse leger" by J.P. Puype & A.A. Wiekart they show one on p.g. 102 described as Broadsword for Cavalry circa 1585 - 1600 with the note that the had a long service life.

Personally, they seem short for cavalry use, but I suspect that there is a Dutch connection as the fledgling nation came out of the 80 years of war with the Spanish.

On your sword the Crown over OT mark seems to be fairly prevalent on the examples I've seen, and it is present on the example I have. I know it's popular to associate every T under a crown stamp as being from Toledo, but I doubt that is the case here. Why stamp the blade "Made in Solingen" if it was made in Toledo when the popular trend was to forge blades as having been made in Toledo?

Nice Radboud, thank you on a post, yes it is in my colection.
Guy i bought it from, has an amazing colection from period 14-17 century.

He said it was german, and that it was used in town? Like the town knights used them, i realy dont know, first time that i meet with that kind of a sword.
But i do remember he mentioned something about cavalry, but as you said it seems little short for horse use?

About mark, on several places i found identical mark and they place it as passau mark, but as i said, on this one, i realy dont know.

It would definetly be silly to put made in solingen on a toledo blade.

Yours is very nice example!

[serdar]

Originally Posted by corrado26

I do not know wether this is a German sword or not, but what I know is that the blade is a Toledo one. The "T"-mark is definite.

Hello Corrado26, thank you on an info, reason i thought it is german is becouse of that mark T with O above and crown, in some books it is placed at passau blades? Allso in this forum.

Number 12 on the picture.