Another fine Alguinjar

Emanuel · 6th July 2007, 02:52 PM

Hello,
I saw this beauty on ebay and thought it'd be nice to talk a bit about it. An alguinjar if we can use the term, made with an European sabre blade. I haven't seen many of these around, so I wonder how widespread they were.
Emanuel

ariel · 6th July 2007, 03:58 PM

Isn't it a variant of Takouba with a curved blade?
Why Alguinjar?

Emanuel · 6th July 2007, 04:13 PM

Alguinjar is a Tuareg term for a sword with a curved blade, while Takouba is reserved for straight blade, no?
http://www.vikingsword.com/ubb/Forum1/HTML/000332.html

Jim McDougall · 6th July 2007, 05:37 PM

Excellent Emanuel!!!
That is an excellent example and thank you for your application of the term apparantly used locally for the curved form of takouba. Lee Jones has done extensive field research on these Tuareg weapons and has gone to great length to discover proper terminology. Thank you also for linking that thread from 2001! That brings back some great memories and pretty well illustrates how long we have worked to research these weapons.

The curved takouba variant termed locally alquinjar apparantly developed using the European sabre blades from both occupying forces from France in the Saharan regions as well as trade blades in some degree from Germany. It would seem that the Manding sabre evolved in Mali and much the same way. It is interesting to note that in further research I did concerning those Manding sabres, in a discussion with a Fulani man from Guinea I discovered that the term they referred to the Manding sabres with was 'kota'.

Clearly, as we have often noted, the local terms, colloquial terms or nicknames, transliterations and widely applied general terms have presented extreme difficulty in identifying weapons by name. In many cases, as in the kaskara of the Sudan, we have discovered that that term is not at all used there to describe these swords, in fact the word is unknown in the Sudan. I have checked this repeatedly with Sudanese individuals and individuals who have studied extensively in the Sudan. They simply use the term sa'if. Despite this being the case, the kaskara term is so firmly emplaced in arms and armour glossaries that it is pointless to try to change its widely accepted use.

Returning to the 'alquinjar' you have posted. Another interesting feature you will note is the distinctly rounded tip, also characteristic on takouba blades.

I once had an 'alquinjar' mounted with an F.W.Hollar blade, and I have even see an example with a blade by Mole (Birmingham, England), both of which would not have come from the French forces mentioned and suggest blades that may have been acquired through trade.

Nicely done Emanuel! Thank you again for these postings

All the best,
Jim

ariel · 7th July 2007, 03:03 AM

Rather naive query: wouldn't Alguinjar be just a simple " Al khanjar", ie "the dagger"?

Jim McDougall · 7th July 2007, 05:15 AM

Not naieve Ariel, extremely astute!!

Actually a quite plausible suggestion, as it seems often that terms used to describe many sword forms apply equally to smaller or shorter, dagger size forms of the weapon. For example a flyssa may describe the range of this weapon from the full size sword to dagger size examples.
Nicely done!

All the best,
Jim

6th July 2007, 02:52 PM	#1
Emanuel Member Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: Toronto, Canada Posts: 1,242	Another fine Alguinjar Hello, I saw this beauty on ebay and thought it'd be nice to talk a bit about it. An alguinjar if we can use the term, made with an European sabre blade. I haven't seen many of these around, so I wonder how widespread they were. Emanuel Attached Images

6th July 2007, 03:58 PM	#2
ariel Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Ann Arbor, MI Posts: 5,503	Isn't it a variant of Takouba with a curved blade? Why Alguinjar?

6th July 2007, 04:13 PM	#3
Emanuel Member Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: Toronto, Canada Posts: 1,242	Alguinjar is a Tuareg term for a sword with a curved blade, while Takouba is reserved for straight blade, no? http://www.vikingsword.com/ubb/Forum1/HTML/000332.html

6th July 2007, 05:37 PM	#4
Jim McDougall Arms Historian Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Route 66 Posts: 9,800	Excellent Emanuel!!! That is an excellent example and thank you for your application of the term apparantly used locally for the curved form of takouba. Lee Jones has done extensive field research on these Tuareg weapons and has gone to great length to discover proper terminology. Thank you also for linking that thread from 2001! That brings back some great memories and pretty well illustrates how long we have worked to research these weapons. The curved takouba variant termed locally alquinjar apparantly developed using the European sabre blades from both occupying forces from France in the Saharan regions as well as trade blades in some degree from Germany. It would seem that the Manding sabre evolved in Mali and much the same way. It is interesting to note that in further research I did concerning those Manding sabres, in a discussion with a Fulani man from Guinea I discovered that the term they referred to the Manding sabres with was 'kota'. Clearly, as we have often noted, the local terms, colloquial terms or nicknames, transliterations and widely applied general terms have presented extreme difficulty in identifying weapons by name. In many cases, as in the kaskara of the Sudan, we have discovered that that term is not at all used there to describe these swords, in fact the word is unknown in the Sudan. I have checked this repeatedly with Sudanese individuals and individuals who have studied extensively in the Sudan. They simply use the term sa'if. Despite this being the case, the kaskara term is so firmly emplaced in arms and armour glossaries that it is pointless to try to change its widely accepted use. Returning to the 'alquinjar' you have posted. Another interesting feature you will note is the distinctly rounded tip, also characteristic on takouba blades. I once had an 'alquinjar' mounted with an F.W.Hollar blade, and I have even see an example with a blade by Mole (Birmingham, England), both of which would not have come from the French forces mentioned and suggest blades that may have been acquired through trade. Nicely done Emanuel! Thank you again for these postings All the best, Jim

7th July 2007, 03:03 AM	#5
ariel Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Ann Arbor, MI Posts: 5,503	Rather naive query: wouldn't Alguinjar be just a simple " Al khanjar", ie "the dagger"?

7th July 2007, 05:15 AM	#6
Jim McDougall Arms Historian Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Route 66 Posts: 9,800	Not naieve Ariel, extremely astute!! Actually a quite plausible suggestion, as it seems often that terms used to describe many sword forms apply equally to smaller or shorter, dagger size forms of the weapon. For example a flyssa may describe the range of this weapon from the full size sword to dagger size examples. Nicely done! All the best, Jim