two little daggers for coments

[fernando]

The first one has an ivory grip ( i think ). The blade measures 10 cms. (4").The guard and scabbard mouth are white brass, the tip is missing. I wouldn't call it a miniature, as actual daggers with these dimensions do seem to exist. But it is not a boot or a bodice dagger, those are different, right ?. Could this be called a woman's dagger ? Necessarily European ?
The second one has a bone grip. The blade measures 19 cms. ( 8").
The grip end plate is copper, and so was the ferrule, that fell with the seller's cleaning ( so he said ) revealing a smaller one in brass. He said he bought it locally, sounding like a rural piece, but the profiling of the grip in that sort of hexagonal manner is a bit sophisticated for a domestic work.
Any coments would be so much wellcome.
fernando