War Hammers?

[David]

Can someone put forth some average weights for the heads of traditional late medieval war hammers. Any real examples to post? Thanks.

[A Senefelder]

I don't own a warhammer but did have this until late last year ( darn economy ) http://www.merctailor.com/originals.php?original_pk=97 . We've forged up a few over the years just expirementing and weights came in around 1 pound to 1.25 pounds. The axe above weight in at a bit over three pounds.

[David]

Originally Posted by A Senefelder

I don't own a warhammer but did have this until late last year ( darn economy ) http://www.merctailor.com/originals.php?original_pk=97 . We've forged up a few over the years just expirementing and weights came in around 1 pound to 1.25 pounds. The axe above weight in at a bit over three pounds.

I'm more interested in the hammers than axes. I have a friend who is claiming that "real" war hammers have heads that weigh in at almost 10 lbs. and that seems way out of range to me.

[Gavin Nugent]

Originally Posted by David

I'm more interested in the hammers than axes. I have a friend who is claiming that "real" war hammers have heads that weigh in at almost 10 lbs. and that seems way out of range to me.

Not beyond the realms of possability at 10lbs....I find for me though 7lb on a long shaft is more than enough weight to swing and has a great effect on objects struck.

Gav$iconid=2

[fernando]

There must be a wide choice of these things, with a wide range of weights.
According to my expert contact, infantry ones may weigh around 3 lbs and cavalry (long shaft) ones around 7 lbs, as would be the case of this unique Portuguese XV century Crow Beak.

.

[Matchlock]

Hi David,

In Germany and Switzerland they were called Fuss-Streithammer (war hammer for foot soldiers).

I attach two late 15th c. samples from the collections of the German Historic Museum Berlin (b/w) and another fine late 15th c. item retaining its warding off disc (Brechscheibe) - I could not find the correct English term. Anyone ready to add it?

Unfortunately their weights are unrecorded.

The hafts are either of oak or ash.

Best,
Michael

[David]

Originally Posted by fernando

There must be a wide choice of these things, with a wide range of weights.
According to my expert contact, infantry ones may weigh around 3 lbs and cavalry (long shaft) ones around 7 lbs, as would be the case of this unique Portuguese XV century Crow Beak.

.

Nando, is that weight for the entire weapon or just the head?

[fernando]

Originally Posted by David

Nando, is that weight for the entire weapon or just the head?

For the entire thing.

[Matchlock]

Hi 'Nando,

Do you happen to know (or are able to find out) the English term for that fencing off disc (Brechscheibe)? It's also found on the awlpike type (Ahlspiess).

My favorite online dictionary dict proved to fail here.

Best,
Michl

[fernando]

Say Michl,
What makes you think i am a living weapons enciclopedia like Herr Trömner ?
George Snook, in his little publication THE HALBERD, refers to these devices mounted in awlpikes (ahlspiesse) simply as circular hand guards.
However John Waldman, in his work HAFTED WEAPONS IN MEDIEVAL AND RENAISSANCE EUROPE, calls them roundel guards.
Does this sound like what you had in mind?

[Matchlock]

Hi, Sir 'Nando,

Living weapons encyclopedia - me??! Thank you so much from the bottom of my heart! Well, I'm certainly not, my dear friend, maybe apart from whatever may concern a few early firearms relics.

Roundel guard just seems perfect to a bloody foreigner like me.
I knew you were the greatest arms historian around anyway!

Thanks a lot,
and a very good night to a warm Portugal (and please cherish your charming cats!) from a darn cold and windy Bavaria (minus 8 degrees centigrade),
Mich

[fernando]

Only two things, Michl:
1 - My 'three and half cats' send their greetings to you .
2 - You should fix your thermometer; Abensberg is not so far from my hometown and we are presently with 12 centigrade ... plus

[Matchlock]

Just one thing, 'Nando:

If it's all that easy and near - please set off to come and see me and my collection, friend! Do your three and three quarter cats cats like driving? I'd love to snuggle up with your lovely smooth purring furries anyway!!!

After all, Alexander, our St. Petersburg friend, was here in my collection in Septemper - and the two of us have been all that much nearer ever since Was this sentence anything nearing correct English? )

As soon as you're here everything will be free:literally hundreds of liters of Bavarian dark beer, roast pork etc... Now ain't that enticing?!

P.S. I heavily kicked my lousy friend's ass once more to make him look for your fuse ...

Good night,
Michl

[fernando]

Thanks for the invitation, Michl
Pity the whole family (wife and cats) don't like car riding .
But some day, who knows ... a low cost flight .
I appreciate you keeping the pressure on your friend with the fuse; i am dying for that.

[Matchlock]

I know you're dying to finally get that fuse. I'll hang on kicking that guy's a.., I promise!

And: a low cost flight to Bavaria would be a nice idea - watch out for it!

Best,
m

[Carl M]

I have a friend who is claiming that "real" war hammers have heads that weigh in at almost 10 lbs. and that seems way out of range to me.

David,

Your friend is confused with fantasy warhammers. The head of a medieval or Renaissance warhammer is well less than a couple of pounds. A ten pound head on a warhammer would be the same as a sledgehammer that you would buy at Home Depot. Great for driving stationary spikes, horrible for combat.

Tell your friend that fyunctionality and physics are at play here. One can do deadly damage with more speed and accuracy with a standard carpenter's hammer against a moving oponent than they can trying to weild a ten lb sledge hammer.

[fernando]

Hi Carl M
Have you already handled a war hammer ... short or/and long shafted?

[Rick]

Originally Posted by Carl M

David,

Your friend is confused with fantasy warhammers. The head of a medieval or Renaissance warhammer is well less than a couple of pounds. A ten pound head on a warhammer would be the same as a sledgehammer that you would buy at Home Depot. Great for driving stationary spikes, horrible for combat.

Tell your friend that fyunctionality and physics are at play here. One can do deadly damage with more speed and accuracy with a standard carpenter's hammer against a moving oponent than they can trying to weild a ten lb sledge hammer.

Having swung a hammer for most of my years in construction I can tell you that a 32 ounce framing hammer given a longer handle would be quite enough to do serious damage to an armored opponent .

A picture of 'Old Faithful' .

[Carl M]

Originally Posted by fernando

Hi Carl M
Have you already handled a war hammer ... short or/and long shafted?

Hi Fernando,

As a collector, I have handled countless repros and numerous originals, both short and long hafted.

Having swung a hammer for most of my years in construction I can tell you that a 32 ounce framing hammer given a longer handle would be quite enough to do serious damage to an armored opponent .

A picture of 'Old Faithful' .

Rick,

Haha! Definitely. Put a spike on the back and four raised points on the square head in the front and you will do even more! It is amazing how much force these can generate in the hands of someone who is used to swinging them. Add the fact that soldier carrying it has significant practice with it and you have a very dangerous individual.

[Rick]

That hammer saved me from sliding off an unshingled frosty roof some 2 decades ago .

I turned it around and drove the claw through the half inch plywood to hang on .
It saved me from many broken bones, or worse .
Good old hammer ......

[cel7]

Originally Posted by David

Can someone put forth some average weights for the heads of traditional late medieval war hammers. Any real examples to post? Thanks.

To revive an old thread, I received this war hammer this morning.
I suspect it's from the late 15th century, but I might be wrong.
It's made of wrought iron. Its total length is 123 cm. It weighs 1790 grams. Regarding these measurements, it should be noted that the point was originally somewhat longer. One of the points on the side is also missing. As you can see, it's had a rough life. Unfortunately, I can't say whether the handle is still original or whether it was replaced at some point.
I do wonder, however, whether this was intended for infantry or cavalry.

[Victrix]

Looks remarkably crude to me. All the war hammers I have seen were clearly defined and neatly shaped. Don’t think you could stab anything with that point or beak. The long shaft ones were typically for infantry, and cavalry would use shorter handled versions. I think the Germans specifically call the latter Riders hammers.

[cel7]

It's certainly not the prettiest. Still, I think it's original, but it may have seen better days.

[kronckew]

My Czekan/obuzek: The Poles were fond of cavalry war hammers. Some like mine with a axe blade, some with the spike. Mine just has the spike in addition, but on the lower end. It weighs less than a kilo.


They were frequently used as status symbols by high ranking soldiers and/ or knights/nobility.
Quite a few threads here on searching for war hammers.


I also have a couple reproductions which are typical, one has a fist holding a spike that emulates a proper antique. the others look more like those posted above. They all weigh less than a couple of kilos, more in the sword range, but the weight distribution makes them feel very tip heavy, of course.

[cel7]

Originally Posted by kronckew

My Czekan/obuzek: The Poles were fond of cavalry war hammers. Some like mine with a axe blade, some with the spike. Mine just has the spike in addition, but on the lower end. It weighs less than a kilo.


They were frequently used as status symbols by high ranking soldiers and/ or knights/nobility.
Quite a few threads here on searching for war hammers.


I also have a couple reproductions which are typical, one has a fist holding a spike that emulates a proper antique. the others look more like those posted above. They all weigh less than a couple of kilos, more in the sword range, but the weight distribution makes them feel very tip heavy, of course.

Hi Kronckew, how old do you estimate this Czekan/obuzek to be?

[kronckew]

Originally Posted by cel7

Hi Kronckew, how old do you estimate this Czekan/obuzek to be?

I'm not sure, few hundred years, Maybe someone else can say more accurately. The steel parts have a deep patination. The bronze/brass not so much tho.