Ethnographic Arms & Armour - View Single Post - Russian hunting knives of the 16th-18th and 19th centuries

ariel · 26th July 2022, 11:45 PM

You are carefully avoiding a straight and simple answer to my question. And I am not arguing with you: I just politely ask you to show me purely Russian swords.

Thus, I repeat:
- can you show a couple of 16-19 century swords that are genuinely Russian by their construction and origin, and clearly different from any European/Oriental contemporaneous examples?

I am not asking you about " Analyzes, additional researches, consultations of other experts are necessary. You can't learn weapons just by flipping through picture albums. This is unacceptable, this is a profanity."

I am sure you do not need more than 3 seconds to proclaim " This is an Ottoman Pala", "This is an Indian Khanda", "This is an Algerian Flissa". That's what I am asking for. After that you can look carefully at the sword , consult books and experts and suggest that a particular Pala, although Ottoman, was made in Syria or the Balkans. If you could from a single pic "determine" that my knife was a "fake", you should have no problem determining at least the origin of some famous and purely "Russian" swords. Not of Russian manufacture, but primordially Russian, a national sword akin to the above examples. Please do not show examples of lavish decorations by Bushuev or Boyarshchinov: Tula was famous for its bling, but stuck to foreign construction patterns.

If you cannot present such examples, there is no shame to it: British and French armies had their " Mameluke" sabers that they copied from the Egyptian ones. No German develops an inferiority complex from the knowledge that the famous " Bluchersabel" was just a spit image copy of the British 1796 pattern. You also should not despair if you cannot find such examples. We are talking about swords and daggers, not about personalities. And let's not pretend we are professional arms historians: we are reasonably well-read amateurs. There is no need to go into pseudoacademic digressions.

So, how about bringing some examples from Kirpichnikov or any other Russian source that I do not have and am not interested in reading? Russian arms are not my cup of tea and the only reason I entered this discussion is to ask you a question about the topic you have started.

Just BTW: you seem to enjoy using snarky comments. Why? I have never insulted you and do not intend to do it in the future. If I have said something in the past that you perceived as personally negative, I apologize and wish to assure you that it was not my intent. How about returning the courtesy, be polite and avoid " fighting words"?

26th July 2022, 11:45 PM	#16
ariel Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Ann Arbor, MI Posts: 5,503	You are carefully avoiding a straight and simple answer to my question. And I am not arguing with you: I just politely ask you to show me purely Russian swords. Thus, I repeat: - can you show a couple of 16-19 century swords that are genuinely Russian by their construction and origin, and clearly different from any European/Oriental contemporaneous examples? I am not asking you about " Analyzes, additional researches, consultations of other experts are necessary. You can't learn weapons just by flipping through picture albums. This is unacceptable, this is a profanity." I am sure you do not need more than 3 seconds to proclaim " This is an Ottoman Pala", "This is an Indian Khanda", "This is an Algerian Flissa". That's what I am asking for. After that you can look carefully at the sword , consult books and experts and suggest that a particular Pala, although Ottoman, was made in Syria or the Balkans. If you could from a single pic "determine" that my knife was a "fake", you should have no problem determining at least the origin of some famous and purely "Russian" swords. Not of Russian manufacture, but primordially Russian, a national sword akin to the above examples. Please do not show examples of lavish decorations by Bushuev or Boyarshchinov: Tula was famous for its bling, but stuck to foreign construction patterns. If you cannot present such examples, there is no shame to it: British and French armies had their " Mameluke" sabers that they copied from the Egyptian ones. No German develops an inferiority complex from the knowledge that the famous " Bluchersabel" was just a spit image copy of the British 1796 pattern. You also should not despair if you cannot find such examples. We are talking about swords and daggers, not about personalities. And let's not pretend we are professional arms historians: we are reasonably well-read amateurs. There is no need to go into pseudoacademic digressions. So, how about bringing some examples from Kirpichnikov or any other Russian source that I do not have and am not interested in reading? Russian arms are not my cup of tea and the only reason I entered this discussion is to ask you a question about the topic you have started. Just BTW: you seem to enjoy using snarky comments. Why? I have never insulted you and do not intend to do it in the future. If I have said something in the past that you perceived as personally negative, I apologize and wish to assure you that it was not my intent. How about returning the courtesy, be polite and avoid " fighting words"? Last edited by ariel; 27th July 2022 at 02:39 PM.