Ethnographic Arms & Armour - View Single Post

A. G. Maisey · 24th June 2021, 12:34 AM

Travel?

During the Time of Covid?

I admire your bravery Jean.

South Sumatera?

1600 to 1700?

Well, we all have our own beliefs, I regret I am completely unable to share your friend's beliefs.

At least you & I seem to be in some agreement, I say less than 100 years old, you say at least 100 years old. I'll settle for "recent", and in keris terms that gives a very spongy period of about 1875 through to yesterday.

My thinking is after about 1900, but even then I have problems, simply because I have not seen a whole lot of truly old keris with this type of sculpting. I do not think it is 1980's, I saw the sort of thing that was being produced in 1980 and shortly thereafter, as it was being produced, and nothing like this comes to mind.

Madura did start to do stuff like this probably during the 1990's , but the surface presentation of this blade seems to indicate something a bit earlier than that, which sort of puts me back to maybe 1920's give or take a few years. However, all this guess work is ignoring the complication of expedited aging which can be either unintentional through neglect, or intentional.

Then there is style. I know exactly what Pak Parman would have said:- the keris would be held point upright in the right hand, it would be being moved gently back & forth with the point going further back over the right shoulder with every movement, and the verdict would be:- "Di luar Jawa", meaning "outside Jawa" and "Jawa" being understood in Central Javanese terms, which is Land of Jawa, not Island of Jawa. After the delivery of the verdict the keris would be put off to one side somewhere, having been judged as wanting and not worthy of further comment.

The Central Javanese keris school is not tolerant of things that are not truly Javanese.

As for place of origin it is definitely not anywhere in Central Jawa, and in that matter I tend to think a bit like my teachers, except that I love Bali origins, and I have great respect for East Javanese origins. Other origins to me seem to be a bit "on the verge" so to speak.

But with all that extraneous stuff out of the way, yes, not a bad keris, probably worth putting into not-too-expensive Solo gayaman.

24th June 2021, 12:34 AM	#14
A. G. Maisey Member Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 6,747	Travel? During the Time of Covid? I admire your bravery Jean. South Sumatera? 1600 to 1700? Well, we all have our own beliefs, I regret I am completely unable to share your friend's beliefs. At least you & I seem to be in some agreement, I say less than 100 years old, you say at least 100 years old. I'll settle for "recent", and in keris terms that gives a very spongy period of about 1875 through to yesterday. My thinking is after about 1900, but even then I have problems, simply because I have not seen a whole lot of truly old keris with this type of sculpting. I do not think it is 1980's, I saw the sort of thing that was being produced in 1980 and shortly thereafter, as it was being produced, and nothing like this comes to mind. Madura did start to do stuff like this probably during the 1990's , but the surface presentation of this blade seems to indicate something a bit earlier than that, which sort of puts me back to maybe 1920's give or take a few years. However, all this guess work is ignoring the complication of expedited aging which can be either unintentional through neglect, or intentional. Then there is style. I know exactly what Pak Parman would have said:- the keris would be held point upright in the right hand, it would be being moved gently back & forth with the point going further back over the right shoulder with every movement, and the verdict would be:- "Di luar Jawa", meaning "outside Jawa" and "Jawa" being understood in Central Javanese terms, which is Land of Jawa, not Island of Jawa. After the delivery of the verdict the keris would be put off to one side somewhere, having been judged as wanting and not worthy of further comment. The Central Javanese keris school is not tolerant of things that are not truly Javanese. As for place of origin it is definitely not anywhere in Central Jawa, and in that matter I tend to think a bit like my teachers, except that I love Bali origins, and I have great respect for East Javanese origins. Other origins to me seem to be a bit "on the verge" so to speak. But with all that extraneous stuff out of the way, yes, not a bad keris, probably worth putting into not-too-expensive Solo gayaman.