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Old 5th November 2021, 06:09 PM   #23
Jim McDougall
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I wanted add some of my own perspective here in line with the excellent views that have been placed. While I have a great deal of familiarity with the swords of Asia, the Steppes and Central Asia into Europe, I cannot claim the focused expertise of the members who have posted on this thread.

I observed earlier that the sword in the OP reminded me of Kirghiz type swords of the Steppes from recollections of line drawings on these swords in books I did not have on hand presently and from research over 25 years ago. As Ian noted from earlier threads there were elements of similarity to 'Siberian' sabers in certain studies.

Here I would point out that the tunkou, while a predominant element of these types of sabers, is not a defining element of 'all' Steppes swords, though these are prevalent it seems in the varying types from the many tribal groups.

In revisiting the resources I had been recalling finally, I found the plate of swords I had mentioned., including 'Kirghiz' examples. What was notable in the plate was illustrating the Kirghiz practice (not exclusive to them, but notable to Steppes tribal groups in degree) of ritually 'killing' a sword before depositing in a burial by heating and bending it rendering it no longer viable.

This is why I brought this up earlier.....influence.

In "The Long Sword and Scabbard Slide in Asia", William Trousdale, 1975, p.118...it discusses these and that "...we have traced a great circular diffusion route, from China through Central Asia to the Meditteranean and Black Sea regions and BACK (capitals mine) eastward across the north Eurasian steppe to the borders of China".
It is noted that this was not a closed circle, and northern extensions are hypothetical, and various offshoots were of course prevalent.

This emphatically illustrates the complex and profound diffusion of these sword forms ACROSS the Steppes, into European regions and others including Balkan, Baltic, of course Byzantine (incl. Meditteranean), in an extended wave over centuries of nomadic migrations.

The Kirghiz, tribes of northern parts of the Steppes gradually had assimilated into Mongol hordes by the early 13th c. along with other Turkic groups.
As we know these Mongol hordes moved westward and were well established in East Europe, notably Hungary.

To think that the influences of these numerous Turkic groups were not carried into Mongol hordes or any other tribal assimilations and included in varied degree and interpretation as these groups went through these regions seems a bit arbitrary.

Here I would note that Crimea in the times considered was primarily Tatar, and as noted Byzantine in southern regions. The Tatars were of course of Steppes tribal groups, while the Byzantines had weapons which had in degree absorbed both influences from the east (as noted), as well as the Romans (early Roman swords seem often to have had 'cuffs' over blade roots).

I hope these notes will substantiate my suggestions of Steppes thus Eastern influences which of course were filtered through Iranian conduit as well.
The pommel is an interesting but not defining element of the sword we discuss.

These long swords and various elements accompanying them were quite literally key in the evolution of the saber and swords as used over centuries in the west, and reflected many aspects and elements of the diverse forms carried westward.

We know the alleged provenence of this early sword, so with that we can presume the potential classification of groups it may have belonged to.
However attempting to classify this sword specifically by form alone seems it would be futile. Regardless, it is an outstanding sword reflecting the numerous influences I have suggested as possible factors.

Plate 1: from "the Mongol Warlords", David Nicolle, p.41

Plate 2: from "Arms and Armor of the Crusading Era 1050-1350". 1988,
#1443, a saber from Esztergum., Hungary (10-11th c) near Visigrad, first capital of Hungary.
It is noted these were based on earlier examples of Central Asian forms used by Turkic warriors.
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Last edited by Jim McDougall; 5th November 2021 at 06:25 PM.
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