[A. G. Maisey]

At the core of my comments in Post 18 is this statement:-

"Central Javanese ladrang forms that do have a defined angkup but that have lost this angkup are never original creations, a Central Javanese ladrangan without angkup is always the result of an alteration, the loss of the angkup makes the keris unsuited for formal wear & for court wear --- "

once this is understood everything else that we have wandered over might be considered to be somewhat superfluous.

However, we're here to exchange ideas, so here are a few more:-

Post 24 --- I have already commented upon one element of this post, but there is something else that I should mention.

The wrongko in the relief carving at Candi Sukuh, that I have shown in my Post #18 & that appears again but reversed in Post 24, does not have a widheng, what looks vaguely like a spiral in the photo is in fact the natural grain of weathered 15th century rock.

In respect of exactly what classification can be applied to the Candi Sukuh wrongko. Yes, it does have some characteristics of a modern ladrangan, and of a modern sandang walikat, and also of a modern jamprahan & certainly of some bancihan forms. However, we do not have even the vaguest idea of what the name was for this form in the 15th century. For a long time I was inclined to think of it as a ladrangan form, not so much because of the wrongko itself, but rather because of the scene in which it appears.

At the present time I would be inclined to accept what anybody, with some understanding of the relative fields, thought that they could see. My own opinions are rarely set in stone, they change continually, and depend upon what I have learnt.

Post 25 --- The Wrongko shown in Post 25 is a Jogja Bancihan form, it is not one of the six Jogja formal Ladrangan forms recognised for official wear. The word "bancihan" comes from the root "banci", which in Javanese means an effeminate man, ie, a man who is neither fully male but also not female. At the present time some people regard the bancihan wrongko forms as having a stigma attached to them, perhaps this is unreasonable, because by likening this wrongko form to an effeminate man, the implied understanding is that it is neither one thing nor the other, it is sort of stuck in the middle with nowhere to go.

Post 26 --- The wrongko shown in Post 26 is the Balinese Jamprahan form, in past times the Jamprahan wrongko form was worn by religious leaders. This defined use accounts for its comparative rarity. This wrongko form is not the equivalent of a Javanese ladrangan form.

Post 27 --- The wrongko shown in this post appears to be a North Javanese variation, not a Central Javanese form, it could be original, it could be an alteration. I have no idea what it might have been classified as in its place & time of origin, but in Central Jawa it would be called "bancihan".