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Originally Posted by cornelistromp
salaams Ahmed,
I do not know if my opinion can add something to this discussion
I'm more at home in medieval european swords from 1100 onwards.
this is a bit too early for me.
but I think the early islamische swords are that interesting that I'm going to delve into it some more.
however I do think it is impossible to say who influenced who.
fe. There is a 11th century Viking sword found in Bulgaria at a Byzantine battle site with a characteristic viking pommel Petersen type H and with a Byzantine guard.
In Romania a sword has been found with Ulfberth inlay, and rivetted guard and pommel, a typical Byzantine sword hilt construction.
on early Byzantine sculptures Spanish swords hilt form can be seen , etc
the broad wide blade with multiple fullers can be an early (9thC) Byzantine development.
who influenced who, I really don't know
best,
Jasper
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Salaams Jasper!
Regarding Byzantine swords, until the late 9th century CE, their blades were usually forged from soft iron that was case-hardened. At that time, and centuries before that, the Byzantines showed their admiration of pattern-welded blades; although they did not trust most of these blades. For the Byzantines, the solution came when Ulfber(h)t blades that were made of homogenous non-crucible steel. These blades had great acceptance in the Byzantine Empire. After their sword-blades were long and slender and made of case-hardened wrought iron and were used mainly for thrusting, the Byzantines switched to the Ulfber(h)t and later Ingelrii sword-blades that were usually used for cutting. Now then, from where did I obtain this information? The answer: From the compositions of al-Kindi, and al-Biruni; the former writing in the 9th century CE, while the latter writing in the late 10th and early 11th centuries CE.
Therefore, I agree with all what you said; except with what you said regarding the wide-bladed multi-fullered swords were of 9th century Byzantine influence. Actually, the Yemenis knew these swords since the 6th century CE. If the Europeans did not know this from their own pattern-welded swords that date to the Migration Period (400-700 CE), then they've learned it from the Muslims, who were using Yemeni swords, during the Crusades. If not from the Muslims, then the Europeans learned this from the Byzantines, who in turn learned it from the Muslims.
Although the Merovingians and other Germanics forged pattern-welded swords with several fullers, I do not know why, when the Ulfber(h)t and Ingelrii swords were forged, the Europeans, for several centuries, forged their blades with a single wide fuller on each face of their blades...even though they returned to the multi-fullering in the late Middle Ages.
Thought to share this with you!
Best regards,
Ahmed Helal Hussein