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Originally Posted by cornelistromp
Saleems Ahmed,
yes I can agree with you, it is of course the question of who came first, the chicken or the egg?
The first European swords with broad blades with parallel cutting edges date from the early 12th century. there are only very few early european examples that I know (the existence) of, 3-4 swords.
see http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showthread.php?t=13457
on the other hand there are eighth century examples sculptures
from the Umayyad period both representations of islamic rulers holding swords, but the shape and width of the blade is difficult to determine.
best,
Jasper |
Salaams Jasper!
Actually, the broad-bladed Arab (Yemeni) swords became known in the Arabian Peninsula shortly after 570 CE; with the dimensions of these Arab swords getting larger and larger until 620 CE. The Arabs may have known these immoderate sized sword-blades from the Indian Sub-Continent, but they made their own finish to their Yemeni swords; like the way they grooved the blades, made grips and other parts of their hilts, etc.
European sword-blades generally did not become immoderate in dimensions until after the First Crusade. The elite Turkish warriors; along with the Arabs and Kurds have been using these broad Yemeni swords (also called Mashrafi swords) for many centuries before the Crusaders came into contact with them in the Middle East (during the Crusades).
Another route of influence may have been via Muslim Spain; though I tend to believe that the Arab swords used by the Moors were usually of moderate dimensions.
One route of influence that I would not doubt would be the Byzantine Empire. Troops from many ethnic groups fighting for this empire have come to contact the Muslim world for a long time. Though the Byzantines continued forging their long and slim swords until the 9th century CE (according to al-Kindi), al-Biruni said that in the 10th and 11th centuries CE they were using swords similar to the Ulber(h)t and Ingelrii swords forged in Western Europe. I would add to that that constant warfare with the Muslims in the 10th and 11th centuries must have taught the Byzantines to forge swords of immoderate dimensions; similar to those Yemeni swords used by their Muslim enemies; even though the Byzantines still preferred "German Steel" over Crucible (Indian) steel, for making their blades.
I'd like to know your opinion, Jasper.
Best regards,
Ahmed Helal Hussein