Ethnographic Arms & Armour - View Single Post - Campaign swords / Walloon swords / Felddegen

Akanthus · 19th November 2023, 07:41 PM

For a long time now i am fascinatet about the kind of swords we call „ Haudegen" here in Germany. The name of these weapon’s varies from Haudegen to Felddegen, from Raufdegen to Walloon Sword.In the narrow sense i will concern here to the classical sword with two main guards with double nodes, one or two side guards, two guard plates,a thumb ring and a mostly double edged blade.
If you look across the literature and auction catalogues or visit museums, these kind of swords are dated from around 1630 up till 1740.They are mainly found in central Europe and also reached America.But is it possible to find a more exact dating of a certain sword in this rather long period ? For me it seems unlikely that a weapon is produced in just the same way over a period of over a hundred years because fashion and scills changes details.
Having seen a lot of these swords and also handled with some of them i imagine , that one can probably figure out some differences concerning a approximately age determination.It certainly will not be possible to name the decade ,but it should be possible in some cases to call it early,medium or late.Certainly we should never forget that a weapon could have changed it's parts during it's lifetime because worn or broken parts had to be repaired.Here some thoughts :

- The turk heads of the grip disappear in the later time and are substituted by metal rings.I think they are more resistant and also cheaper .
- Instead of wire, metal grip hilts ( brass , tin ) or leather is used to cover the grip in later time.
- The nodes are getting smaller in later times.I think the function of the nodes is the possibility to parry the opponents blade or to make a punch with the hilt of the sword more effective.Naturally these nodes have also a stylish function.
- The guard plates are reduced .In later times there is often only one guard plate. Instead the inner guard plate ther is often only the thumb ring left, which is wider on his upper side.
- Looking onto the guard plates from the blade side, the outer edge of the guard plates built a symetrical or asymetrical „8“ .Later swords show a kind of „heart “.
- The material of the hilt changes. In the 18th.century you often find brass for hilt and guard plates.
- Here in the forum ,AHorsa mentioned in his thread „ Austrian Felddegen" ,that a metal spacer between grip and blade could indicate a later age between 1700 and the first quarter of the 18th. Century.
- Certainly also the blades tell us something about age.But blades often had to be changed.

All i mentioned here is only my opinion, which may be right or wrong.I don't know how far a screw to fix the kucklebow, a pierced or non pierced guard plate or the form of the pommel tell us something about age.Certainly here are members in this forum who are able to bring light in the darkness.
Hi Andreas,
Wrote this some days ago and would have posted it in a new thread.It's funny that you made a post concerning the same thing.I think it makes sense to post it here now.

19th November 2023, 07:41 PM	#2
Akanthus Member Join Date: Mar 2023 Posts: 73	For a long time now i am fascinatet about the kind of swords we call „ Haudegen" here in Germany. The name of these weapon’s varies from Haudegen to Felddegen, from Raufdegen to Walloon Sword.In the narrow sense i will concern here to the classical sword with two main guards with double nodes, one or two side guards, two guard plates,a thumb ring and a mostly double edged blade. If you look across the literature and auction catalogues or visit museums, these kind of swords are dated from around 1630 up till 1740.They are mainly found in central Europe and also reached America.But is it possible to find a more exact dating of a certain sword in this rather long period ? For me it seems unlikely that a weapon is produced in just the same way over a period of over a hundred years because fashion and scills changes details. Having seen a lot of these swords and also handled with some of them i imagine , that one can probably figure out some differences concerning a approximately age determination.It certainly will not be possible to name the decade ,but it should be possible in some cases to call it early,medium or late.Certainly we should never forget that a weapon could have changed it's parts during it's lifetime because worn or broken parts had to be repaired.Here some thoughts : - The turk heads of the grip disappear in the later time and are substituted by metal rings.I think they are more resistant and also cheaper . - Instead of wire, metal grip hilts ( brass , tin ) or leather is used to cover the grip in later time. - The nodes are getting smaller in later times.I think the function of the nodes is the possibility to parry the opponents blade or to make a punch with the hilt of the sword more effective.Naturally these nodes have also a stylish function. - The guard plates are reduced .In later times there is often only one guard plate. Instead the inner guard plate ther is often only the thumb ring left, which is wider on his upper side. - Looking onto the guard plates from the blade side, the outer edge of the guard plates built a symetrical or asymetrical „8“ .Later swords show a kind of „heart “. - The material of the hilt changes. In the 18th.century you often find brass for hilt and guard plates. - Here in the forum ,AHorsa mentioned in his thread „ Austrian Felddegen" ,that a metal spacer between grip and blade could indicate a later age between 1700 and the first quarter of the 18th. Century. - Certainly also the blades tell us something about age.But blades often had to be changed. All i mentioned here is only my opinion, which may be right or wrong.I don't know how far a screw to fix the kucklebow, a pierced or non pierced guard plate or the form of the pommel tell us something about age.Certainly here are members in this forum who are able to bring light in the darkness. Hi Andreas, Wrote this some days ago and would have posted it in a new thread.It's funny that you made a post concerning the same thing.I think it makes sense to post it here now.