Quote:
Originally Posted by fernando
Jim, hopefuly the conversation over these 'tool weapons' doesn't lead us to an area beyond our forum scope, you know, 20th century WW militaria and the like.
Concerning the what you call Spanish style sword bayonet, while i find this a mistery, i can tell that Juan Luis Calvó, Barceló Rubi and Vicente Toledo only mention a model 1803 for sappers. One particularity with this model is that it had a hole in the point of the blade to allow for two hands/users to perform a better sawing.
The style and circumstances of those 'Spanish' style bayonets is very vague in the references concerning these being used by artillery gunners in the British army, as you recall the dilemma with the briquets I was discussing a while back. Interesting that a feature like that hole was intended for use as a tool (saw) yet these were clearly intended as weapons.
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You're right, and I was immediately apprehensive about using the word 'tool' in describing these weapons, but even the sage Richard Burton described the use of these weapons for utility in these forces charged with functions involving fortifications.
Since the Spanish pattern was in the Napoleonic period it seemed like it met the required criteria to be discussed here. The British pattern discussed is c. 1856 so still OK.
An interesting note about saw back blades might be brought in here, and that many 'hunting hangers' had this feature in the 17th and 18th century supposedly for field dressing game. Hunting hangers were of course not combat oriented, however invariably they found use by officers in many cases.
I know that the Hounslow hangers made in England in the early 17th century were, though resembling hunting hangers, actually intended for use on ships. The serrated saw backs were used for sawing through fouled rigging etc. but the hangers themselves were regarded as 'cutlasses' which were actually naval weapons used in combat.
Since these were last known in use in the Revolutionary war period, their mention is moot as far as the time period allotted but that these weapons in form were used for hunting as well as utility. It seems there are so many cases where weapons and tools transcend purpose and use.
Axes often have a poll on the back of the head , often used as a hammer, but of course deadly as a blunt force weapon as well.
I just looked back at my earlier post and realized I mentioned a bayonet from WWI in the context of my comments in analogy, sorry.