[Ian]

Originally Posted by David

... i wonder if this kris is not just very old instead of "very, very old". I mean, yes, it is obviously an old kris in what we know as the "archaic" form, but when i look at the gangya i see this series of holes where on a kris from the 17th centry or older i would expect to see actual greneng. Of course, i have seen this before, but on later kris. Also extent of the 45 degree angle rise at the end of the gangya seems to me to be a later development. My thought would therefore be 18th century. Dress could be 19th or even early 20th C. Nice find Ian.

David, the issue of greneng, or the absence of such, is an interesting one. The example shown here by Lief has some greneng, still visible but seriously worn down. Detlef's example similarly shows almost no definable greneng. So perhaps these ancient kris had greneng to some extent that simply got worn down with time. And the Java keris in Moro dress referenced by Detlef appears never to have had greneng.

The point you raise about the drilled holes is a good one. The holes look fairly well defined, and show little effects of corrosion. In fact, when I X-rayed the area those holes looked very clean and circular--"punched out." For this reason, I think they are probably a much later addition.

Lastly, the uptilted end of the gangya is seen on the very old Bugis keris example that I have referenced, suggesting that this style of gangya could have been copied from the Bugis at an early time in the development of the Moro kris.