Ethnographic Arms & Armour - View Single Post

ariel · 9th June 2015, 10:57 PM

I think we have unnecessarily complicated the issue of Afghani weapons.
Both Karud and Choora ( whatever they mean) are straight-bladed derivatives of Persian Pesh Kabz. This is, likely, why many old ( and even contemporary) authors use Pesh Kabz as the general definition (Please refer to the recent books by Oliver Pinchot and Robert Hales).

Elgood and Flindt, in a joint statement bashfully admitted that they had no idea of the origin of the word Karud and suggested that it may just be a mis-literation of the word Kard ( Persian "knife"), as heard by an european traveller.

Choora is an Indian word also meaning just "knife" and I am uncertain that Muslim natives of Afghanistan would use it instead of more familiar Kard( Kord) and Bichaq ( P'chak). Although geographical closeness of the Khyber Pass area to India proper might have made it possible.

If we look at Karud and Choora side-by-side, they are absolutely identical blade-wise in terms of form, lenght or thickness. The only difference is the handle, including the calyx on the back of the blade, i.e. pure decoration, not affecting the fighting abilities of the implement. I think we have already discussed the leading role of the decorative elements in defining the ethnic character of a bladed weapon. Karuds were seen everywhere: the entire Afghanistan, Central Asia, Northern India; Choora was specific for a small corner of Afghanistan , - the Khyber Pass and vicinities. I would pose that Choora was just an ethnic variant of the Karud, the straight-bladed variant of Pesh Kabz.
When did the Mahsud ( as per Stone) started manufacturing it, - is the exact issue of the current discussion. One could easily suggest their acquisition of the mass produced "karud" blades in larger centers and fitting them with "their own" inexpensive handle. This would also agree with the occasional finding of a wootz blade ( pretty frequent on expensive Karuds with rhino, ivory or valuable stone handles) coupled with ivory pommel: an Afghani bling-bling :-) Also, poor quality blades with a mishmash of cheap materials might have been attempts of provincial, village production. The last sentences are pure and unadulterated IMHO, but what the unbridled fantasy is for :-)))

9th June 2015, 10:57 PM	#139
ariel Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Ann Arbor, MI Posts: 5,503	I think we have unnecessarily complicated the issue of Afghani weapons. Both Karud and Choora ( whatever they mean) are straight-bladed derivatives of Persian Pesh Kabz. This is, likely, why many old ( and even contemporary) authors use Pesh Kabz as the general definition (Please refer to the recent books by Oliver Pinchot and Robert Hales). Elgood and Flindt, in a joint statement bashfully admitted that they had no idea of the origin of the word Karud and suggested that it may just be a mis-literation of the word Kard ( Persian "knife"), as heard by an european traveller. Choora is an Indian word also meaning just "knife" and I am uncertain that Muslim natives of Afghanistan would use it instead of more familiar Kard( Kord) and Bichaq ( P'chak). Although geographical closeness of the Khyber Pass area to India proper might have made it possible. If we look at Karud and Choora side-by-side, they are absolutely identical blade-wise in terms of form, lenght or thickness. The only difference is the handle, including the calyx on the back of the blade, i.e. pure decoration, not affecting the fighting abilities of the implement. I think we have already discussed the leading role of the decorative elements in defining the ethnic character of a bladed weapon. Karuds were seen everywhere: the entire Afghanistan, Central Asia, Northern India; Choora was specific for a small corner of Afghanistan , - the Khyber Pass and vicinities. I would pose that Choora was just an ethnic variant of the Karud, the straight-bladed variant of Pesh Kabz. When did the Mahsud ( as per Stone) started manufacturing it, - is the exact issue of the current discussion. One could easily suggest their acquisition of the mass produced "karud" blades in larger centers and fitting them with "their own" inexpensive handle. This would also agree with the occasional finding of a wootz blade ( pretty frequent on expensive Karuds with rhino, ivory or valuable stone handles) coupled with ivory pommel: an Afghani bling-bling :-) Also, poor quality blades with a mishmash of cheap materials might have been attempts of provincial, village production. The last sentences are pure and unadulterated IMHO, but what the unbridled fantasy is for :-)))