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Originally Posted by ariel
Janissary corps was very brutally disbanded in 1826. Wilkinson sold very poor quality chainmail to the Khedive of Egypt at the end of 19th century. That is as much as I know about chainmail in N. Africa. Can you direct me to your source of Berber chainmail, please? AFAIK, Berbers were dirt poor and very much oppressed in Muslim N. Africa. Thus, it would seem strange to me that their tribes maintained organized military with a significant use of expensive chainmail.
Also, the long points of flissa ( at least those that I happened to handle) were incredibly flimsy, unlike Tatar ordynkas. Difficult to imagine that they had any practical value against chainmail. And virtually all Islamic swordplays did not include stabbing , with the exception of Ottoman version of estocs. Something does not jibe there....
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Im very much in accord with Ariel regarding the 'needle' points on the flyssa, and while by free association I was always inclined to think of this feature having possible Tatar influence via Janissaries, they seemed too fragile for armor penetration.
As far as Berbers having mail, I had not been aware of presence of it in these regions, despite being well known from Egypt, Sudan and into Bornu and Nigeria via Mamluk trade. The note on mail being produced for the Khedive is well placed, however it was soon realized that rather than being defensive against bullets, the links would fragment and contribute to the wounding material instead.
The Kabyle Berbers were remotely situated, which helped them avoid being taken by Ottomans or French in most cases, and there seems to be little information as to how the flyssa was used in action. As Ariel mentioned, the thrust was little used in Islamic swordplay, though in Berber context is uncertain. Presumably slashing cuts were favored, but flyssa's are terribly cumbersome and ill balanced. The lack of guard would be detrimental to either thrust or slashing blow and the balance issue would also be a factor.
In trying to establish the earliest presence of the 'flyssa' sword, I found one example with provenance to 1857 (if I recall) in the French Foreign Legion museum in France which was said to have been captured then. It was in the familiar form, suggesting that style had been around for some time earlier, the term is used as early as 1827, but beyond that there is no real record I am aware of.
With that, getting back to the knife at hand....... the Ottoman yataghans topic and the nod toward Iflysen yataghans,....it is known that while the flyssa was a kind of rite of passage weapon for young men, the Ottoman yataghan these evolved from remained highly desirable.
This seems to have been the conduit for the digression from Ottoman edged weapons to flyssa.
I appreciate the great input on the terms for these Ottoman weapons and Ariel, the term 'khedama'...that is good to know on the flyssa proper local term.