Ethnographic Arms & Armour - View Single Post - Is this saif from Yemen or Hyderabad India for the Yemeni market?

ariel · 16th December 2020, 01:22 PM

Jim,

The origin of the trilobate “ Karabela” pommel was attributed to Shah Abbas (1571-1629) who patterned it from the configuration of windows of the mosque in a holy city of Karbala. That was proposed by Khorasani in his book and regretfully Elgood repeated it.
However, there are Turkish miniatures showing same configuration well before Abbas’ times. I had them, but they were lost with the entire computer:-(((

Luckily , the same pommel is seen in the pictures by Durer( 1471- 1529) and by Pietro Befulco( 1471-1503), both well before Shah Abbas was even born. Whether the European development of that pommel was an independent one, or a copy of the Turkish one is uncertain, but the existence of Turkish images and the close contacts of Europeans with Turkish weapons strongly suggests the latter.

Also, karabela pommel was widespread on the Ottoman territories( Turkey proper, Balkans, Hungary, Arabia) or in Poland that fought with the Ottomans or their satellites. but was only seen on some late ( 18-19 century) solitary examples of the “Persian” areal ( Iran proper, India).

Thus, the Turkish claim that Karabela got its name from the town of Karabel, and has nothing to do with Karbala or some fanciful phonetic inventions ( Italian Cara Bella, dear beauty or such) seems to be true.

16th December 2020, 01:22 PM	#8
ariel Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Ann Arbor, MI Posts: 5,503	Jim, The origin of the trilobate “ Karabela” pommel was attributed to Shah Abbas (1571-1629) who patterned it from the configuration of windows of the mosque in a holy city of Karbala. That was proposed by Khorasani in his book and regretfully Elgood repeated it. However, there are Turkish miniatures showing same configuration well before Abbas’ times. I had them, but they were lost with the entire computer:-((( Luckily , the same pommel is seen in the pictures by Durer( 1471- 1529) and by Pietro Befulco( 1471-1503), both well before Shah Abbas was even born. Whether the European development of that pommel was an independent one, or a copy of the Turkish one is uncertain, but the existence of Turkish images and the close contacts of Europeans with Turkish weapons strongly suggests the latter. Also, karabela pommel was widespread on the Ottoman territories( Turkey proper, Balkans, Hungary, Arabia) or in Poland that fought with the Ottomans or their satellites. but was only seen on some late ( 18-19 century) solitary examples of the “Persian” areal ( Iran proper, India). Thus, the Turkish claim that Karabela got its name from the town of Karabel, and has nothing to do with Karbala or some fanciful phonetic inventions ( Italian Cara Bella, dear beauty or such) seems to be true.