Ethnographic Arms & Armour - View Single Post

A. G. Maisey · Today, 01:31 AM

Actually, that idea of "Bugis style" is very probably a bit off track. Monumental evidence indicates that the scabbard used in East Jawa during the Mojopahit era was the same form that we now call a "Bugis" scabbard. The keris began its spread through SE Asia during Mojo times, due to trade links, & and as a "weapon" of diplomacy --- the binding force of the keris.

This early Javanese form was adopted by the Bugis people, so really, we are looking at an early Javanese scabbard form.

As I commented in my original guess:- " --- geographically maybe North Sumatera through to Peninsula".

So I'm not at all arguing against Sumatra, I'm saying that I am unable to rationally support any specific geographic location, I'm saying --- very clearly --- that I'm guessing.

I do know some very experienced keris people who would place that scabbard as Riau.

I know other equally experienced keris people who would place the hilt as South Sulawesi & give it the correct name used in that area.

The hilt cup I think is most likely Peninsula, & that's a genuine guess.

The blade certainly appears to be outside Jawa, but it could possibly be from one of the areas not under direct kraton influence, however, I'm still inclined to go with what I believe would be the opinion of my teachers:- "diluarJawa" & thus not even worthy of consideration --- in fairness, these teachers were very Jawa-centric, maybe I should say Solo-centric.

If I had it in hand I might be able to construct a supportable opinion, from a photo I cannot:- a photo simply cannot give sufficient information upon which to give a defensible opinion.

A guess is a guess, and an opinion in the absence of supporting evidence is pretty much the same as a guess.

Detlef, yeah, I agree, that repair looks pretty clumsy, maybe the blade is not original to the scabbard & this strange angle was forced upon it. Maybe.

Post #5

I think I should tighten up my relaxed comment here, & write what I really mean. Forget "--- maybe North Sumatera ---" & substitute "--- maybe along the North Coast of Sumatera & including adjacent islands ---". It is still a guess.

Today, 01:31 AM	#9
A. G. Maisey Member Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 7,117	Actually, that idea of "Bugis style" is very probably a bit off track. Monumental evidence indicates that the scabbard used in East Jawa during the Mojopahit era was the same form that we now call a "Bugis" scabbard. The keris began its spread through SE Asia during Mojo times, due to trade links, & and as a "weapon" of diplomacy --- the binding force of the keris. This early Javanese form was adopted by the Bugis people, so really, we are looking at an early Javanese scabbard form. As I commented in my original guess:- " --- geographically maybe North Sumatera through to Peninsula". So I'm not at all arguing against Sumatra, I'm saying that I am unable to rationally support any specific geographic location, I'm saying --- very clearly --- that I'm guessing. I do know some very experienced keris people who would place that scabbard as Riau. I know other equally experienced keris people who would place the hilt as South Sulawesi & give it the correct name used in that area. The hilt cup I think is most likely Peninsula, & that's a genuine guess. The blade certainly appears to be outside Jawa, but it could possibly be from one of the areas not under direct kraton influence, however, I'm still inclined to go with what I believe would be the opinion of my teachers:- "diluarJawa" & thus not even worthy of consideration --- in fairness, these teachers were very Jawa-centric, maybe I should say Solo-centric. If I had it in hand I might be able to construct a supportable opinion, from a photo I cannot:- a photo simply cannot give sufficient information upon which to give a defensible opinion. A guess is a guess, and an opinion in the absence of supporting evidence is pretty much the same as a guess. Detlef, yeah, I agree, that repair looks pretty clumsy, maybe the blade is not original to the scabbard & this strange angle was forced upon it. Maybe. Post #5 I think I should tighten up my relaxed comment here, & write what I really mean. Forget "--- maybe North Sumatera ---" & substitute "--- maybe along the North Coast of Sumatera & including adjacent islands ---". It is still a guess. Last edited by A. G. Maisey; Today at 01:54 AM.