Ethnographic Arms & Armour - View Single Post

serdar · Yesterday, 08:21 PM

[QUOTE=ASPaulding;276364]

Translate of that kilij cartouche: Owner and possessor Jusuf year 1264 hijri.
There is a word before Jusuf but is not clear.

You have two nice kilij’s.

The one with text is from mid 19 century.

But other one blade maybe is not a kilij blade (it is kilij sword, but maybe blade is european and reshaped, but i looked closely it doesent seem to be reshaped), im not sure, neither would be possible to conclude from pictures, no one can do that, but to me it looks like older blade, that profile is not a T like on other but more shalow fuller fat back one, and there is a eye lash mark, but i dont know, to me it looks like older blade, but that can be determined only when you take the sword in hands.

But other thing, why everyone in europe adress to 19 century kilij as a pala?
I have come in contact with two types of something that is called a pala.
In balkan, in Montenegro turkish armies were readily defeated over the course of centuries, and there is a lot of ottoman weapons as a consecuence, in montenegro there is a sword with yatagan look but has no ears and has a straight blade, i have specimens from my family that are one from 17 century and other from 18 century, im fortunate to have two examples, as they are extremly rare.

Other type of pala is a sword like a karabela but it isnt, it has a karabela like handle or a pistol like handle, crossguard is bent to the blade, and blade is little shorter but more straight and wide, there are two examples in montenegro museums, they are very very rare.

Those two are only “pala” swords that are in old books from balkan, by old books i mean manuacripts with drawings from 18/19 century, from the people that witnessed battles and participated in them.

In balkan, pala swords are called gadara, it means a nasty thing, i dont know if it comes from persian gaddare, but some swords do look like ottoman version of gaddare.

Allso there is a drawing of Montenegro pala sword in bosnian book from vejsil curcic.

My picture in the midle ottoman pala sword captured in montenegro begining of 18 century, right to it ottoman naval yatagan sword allso montenegro begining of 18 century, left is a yatagan sword also from montenegro end of 18 century from battle.

Picture of pala swords from web.

Yesterday, 08:21 PM	#40
serdar Member Join Date: Feb 2023 Posts: 139	[QUOTE=ASPaulding;276364] Translate of that kilij cartouche: Owner and possessor Jusuf year 1264 hijri. There is a word before Jusuf but is not clear. You have two nice kilij’s. The one with text is from mid 19 century. But other one blade maybe is not a kilij blade (it is kilij sword, but maybe blade is european and reshaped, but i looked closely it doesent seem to be reshaped), im not sure, neither would be possible to conclude from pictures, no one can do that, but to me it looks like older blade, that profile is not a T like on other but more shalow fuller fat back one, and there is a eye lash mark, but i dont know, to me it looks like older blade, but that can be determined only when you take the sword in hands. But other thing, why everyone in europe adress to 19 century kilij as a pala? I have come in contact with two types of something that is called a pala. In balkan, in Montenegro turkish armies were readily defeated over the course of centuries, and there is a lot of ottoman weapons as a consecuence, in montenegro there is a sword with yatagan look but has no ears and has a straight blade, i have specimens from my family that are one from 17 century and other from 18 century, im fortunate to have two examples, as they are extremly rare. Other type of pala is a sword like a karabela but it isnt, it has a karabela like handle or a pistol like handle, crossguard is bent to the blade, and blade is little shorter but more straight and wide, there are two examples in montenegro museums, they are very very rare. Those two are only “pala” swords that are in old books from balkan, by old books i mean manuacripts with drawings from 18/19 century, from the people that witnessed battles and participated in them. In balkan, pala swords are called gadara, it means a nasty thing, i dont know if it comes from persian gaddare, but some swords do look like ottoman version of gaddare. Allso there is a drawing of Montenegro pala sword in bosnian book from vejsil curcic. My picture in the midle ottoman pala sword captured in montenegro begining of 18 century, right to it ottoman naval yatagan sword allso montenegro begining of 18 century, left is a yatagan sword also from montenegro end of 18 century from battle. Picture of pala swords from web. Attached Images Last edited by serdar; Yesterday at 10:12 PM.