Ethnographic Arms & Armour - View Single Post

Jim McDougall · 17th February 2016, 07:34 PM

It seems to me that this genuinely interesting topic has been pretty well examined in the posts in this thread, and while there are of course no 'finite' answers, there have been quite a few constructive and thought provoking perspectives added.
I think the only 'silliness' that has permeated the thread is in the seemingly inevitable frustration and personal retorts that have been placed. It is, at least in my view, always disappointing to see persons with remarkable knowledge and intelligence resort to such less than worthy remarks.

It seems obvious to me that just as with the assimilation of various cultural or ethnographic groups into others, i.e. the so called 'disappearance of the Anasazi's in the American Southwest, it is virtually impossible to set any exact date or even period for many such events or circumstances, including the 'disappearance of wootz'.

I think primarily what Mahratt is looking for is documented note regarding the production of wootz in various contemporary sources, and here has been hoping for a more international cross section of such resources.

Even with my admittedly meager understanding of metallurgy itself, the wootz issue notwithstanding, it seems odd to me that this apparently quite mysterious skill could simply vanish, and in a relatively narrow window of time.

It does seem that in some reading I recall (I believe in Pant) it was noted that often in India, there were issues with blades being too brittle, and thus the attraction to more durable European blades. This in addition to the increasing colonial and trade incursions brought large volumes of these blades into the Indian sphere.

The beauty of wootz of course remained an attraction for specialty blades relegated more to high end weapons, but for the volume of arms produced for general use, the trade blades and their native counterparts became the norm.

I think we all know that reliance on dates and similar marks, inscriptions etc on blades cannot be accepted as irrefutable evidence without further corroboration as the commemorative placement of these not to mention entire weapon forms is a constant with anything as traditional as edged weapons.

I think it best for participants to struggle to focus on subject matter without personal barbed comments, and if anyone lacks the forbearance to enact that skill, or if the content of the discussion is simply too much to handle...simply don't continue to read or enter. Its actually quite simple.

Meanwhile, if anyone can locate passages from various works which address wootz production with specification of dates and or locales I think such information would be most helpful.

17th February 2016, 07:34 PM	#83
Jim McDougall Arms Historian Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Route 66 Posts: 9,795	It seems to me that this genuinely interesting topic has been pretty well examined in the posts in this thread, and while there are of course no 'finite' answers, there have been quite a few constructive and thought provoking perspectives added. I think the only 'silliness' that has permeated the thread is in the seemingly inevitable frustration and personal retorts that have been placed. It is, at least in my view, always disappointing to see persons with remarkable knowledge and intelligence resort to such less than worthy remarks. It seems obvious to me that just as with the assimilation of various cultural or ethnographic groups into others, i.e. the so called 'disappearance of the Anasazi's in the American Southwest, it is virtually impossible to set any exact date or even period for many such events or circumstances, including the 'disappearance of wootz'. I think primarily what Mahratt is looking for is documented note regarding the production of wootz in various contemporary sources, and here has been hoping for a more international cross section of such resources. Even with my admittedly meager understanding of metallurgy itself, the wootz issue notwithstanding, it seems odd to me that this apparently quite mysterious skill could simply vanish, and in a relatively narrow window of time. It does seem that in some reading I recall (I believe in Pant) it was noted that often in India, there were issues with blades being too brittle, and thus the attraction to more durable European blades. This in addition to the increasing colonial and trade incursions brought large volumes of these blades into the Indian sphere. The beauty of wootz of course remained an attraction for specialty blades relegated more to high end weapons, but for the volume of arms produced for general use, the trade blades and their native counterparts became the norm. I think we all know that reliance on dates and similar marks, inscriptions etc on blades cannot be accepted as irrefutable evidence without further corroboration as the commemorative placement of these not to mention entire weapon forms is a constant with anything as traditional as edged weapons. I think it best for participants to struggle to focus on subject matter without personal barbed comments, and if anyone lacks the forbearance to enact that skill, or if the content of the discussion is simply too much to handle...simply don't continue to read or enter. Its actually quite simple. Meanwhile, if anyone can locate passages from various works which address wootz production with specification of dates and or locales I think such information would be most helpful. Last edited by Jim McDougall; 17th February 2016 at 08:35 PM.