Ethnographic Arms & Armour - View Single Post - Earliest known twist core blades outside West-Europe

Lee · 20th December 2011, 07:03 PM

I developed an interest in twist core (pattern-welded) blades fairly early in my collecting 'career' and so I have accumulated a number of examples. At one time I naively believed there had to be a continuous path of the technique from medieval Europe, but I since have realized that it is, in the end, a relatively simple technique that any iron working culture will clearly discover at the forge. I do perceive that there is still a qualitative difference in the patterns in the medieval European material from the later ethnographic material, and I presume this arises from difference in material or in how the component rods were constructed. My 'ethnographic' examples, I believe dating from the 18th and 19th centuries, seem to follow the same patterns as are seen in modern bladesmith's work and in the earlier European revival of the technique.

I have an Ottoman rifle barrel obviously built up of twist core rods and dated to the 17th century when the previous owner lent it for a museum exhibition. I thought I had posted pictures on the forums in years past, but I have not found the correct keywords to bring it up if I had. I believe that such Ottoman barrels are found from at least the century before this and so, this may be the 'origin' in Ottoman work.

We know the medieval European work almost exclusively from archaeology; and not what will have come in to our collections from examples well-preserved and cared for indoors. Hopefully, some members will be familiar with local archaeological work for some of the 'ethnographic' types and be able to assist with an earliest date for those types.

Outside of keris and nihonto, the other issue is that we often do not know what we have. One yataghan of mine has an inscribed date in the 18th century; I believe another to be older. I suspect my 'protobudiak' may be otherwise be my earliest example; but as yet, I have no framework upon which to accurately date the blade.

I will ponder this and try to bring a few examples up on the board for discussion.

20th December 2011, 07:03 PM	#3
Lee EAAF Staff Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: Upstate New York, USA Posts: 899	A Tall Order I developed an interest in twist core (pattern-welded) blades fairly early in my collecting 'career' and so I have accumulated a number of examples. At one time I naively believed there had to be a continuous path of the technique from medieval Europe, but I since have realized that it is, in the end, a relatively simple technique that any iron working culture will clearly discover at the forge. I do perceive that there is still a qualitative difference in the patterns in the medieval European material from the later ethnographic material, and I presume this arises from difference in material or in how the component rods were constructed. My 'ethnographic' examples, I believe dating from the 18th and 19th centuries, seem to follow the same patterns as are seen in modern bladesmith's work and in the earlier European revival of the technique. I have an Ottoman rifle barrel obviously built up of twist core rods and dated to the 17th century when the previous owner lent it for a museum exhibition. I thought I had posted pictures on the forums in years past, but I have not found the correct keywords to bring it up if I had. I believe that such Ottoman barrels are found from at least the century before this and so, this may be the 'origin' in Ottoman work. We know the medieval European work almost exclusively from archaeology; and not what will have come in to our collections from examples well-preserved and cared for indoors. Hopefully, some members will be familiar with local archaeological work for some of the 'ethnographic' types and be able to assist with an earliest date for those types. Outside of keris and nihonto, the other issue is that we often do not know what we have. One yataghan of mine has an inscribed date in the 18th century; I believe another to be older. I suspect my 'protobudiak' may be otherwise be my earliest example; but as yet, I have no framework upon which to accurately date the blade. I will ponder this and try to bring a few examples up on the board for discussion.