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-   -   Opinion on an unusual dagger with wootz blade (http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showthread.php?t=28432)

mahratt 15th December 2022 05:52 AM

Opinion on an unusual dagger with wootz blade
 
4 Attachment(s)
Hi guys

I would like to hear your opinion on which region this dagger belongs to. I think Persia. What do you think?

Gonzoadler 15th December 2022 08:42 AM

Hello,

this three blade folding mechanism reminds me of indian Katars, where we can see this sometimes, too.
So I would guess northern India is also a possibility. In my opinion, the artistical style doesn't speak against that, too. What do you think?

Regards
Robin

mahratt 15th December 2022 11:52 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gonzoadler (Post 277150)
Hello,

this three blade folding mechanism reminds me of indian Katars, where we can see this sometimes, too.
So I would guess northern India is also a possibility. In my opinion, the artistical style doesn't speak against that, too. What do you think?

Regards
Robin

Great idea!
I completely forgot about those "drop-downs" kathars.
Good version! But I'm confused by the high quality of wootz:
1) I can't remember any examples "drop-down" katars from high quality wootz
2) usually such a voots is considered Persian, unless of course I'm mistaken...

Best Wishes,
Dmitry

ariel 15th December 2022 04:39 PM

Persian swordsmiths were invited by the Moguls to serve at their court. It started at the end of 16th century and within the next 50-100 years Moghul swordsmiths fully adopted Persian techniques. Thus, the presence of sophisticated wootz pattern does not exclude North Indian origin.

mahratt 15th December 2022 06:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ariel (Post 277156)
Persian swordsmiths were invited by the Moguls to serve at their court. It started at the end of 16th century and within the next 50-100 years Moghul swordsmiths fully adopted Persian techniques. Thus, the presence of sophisticated wootz pattern does not exclude North Indian origin.

Thanks for the clarification

ariel 15th December 2022 10:53 PM

You are welcome.

gp 16th December 2022 12:02 AM

might be even longer present in the Indian hemispheres ...

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wootz_steel

ariel 16th December 2022 02:19 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by gp (Post 277165)
might be even longer present in the Indian hemispheres ...

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wootz_steel

Yes, Indians did produce wootz very early in history, but their wootz pattern was limited to the " salt-and-pepper" variety.
Complex wootz patterns ( Kara Khorasan, Kara Taban) were invented and mass produced in Persia alone till ~17th century when Persian bladesmiths relocated to the Mughal courts and instructed their Indian colleagues how to produce sophisticated patterns.

mariusgmioc 16th December 2022 11:17 AM

Are you very sure it is wootz and not pattern welded?

I am asking because I have seen pattern welded blades with very similar pattern to the one of this dagger.

Anyhow, whether pattern welded or wootz, I would go for India as origin.

mahratt 16th December 2022 11:54 AM

1 Attachment(s)
Quote:

Originally Posted by mariusgmioc (Post 277175)
Are you very sure it is wootz and not pattern welded?

I am asking because I have seen pattern welded blades with very similar pattern to the one of this dagger.

Anyhow, whether pattern welded or wootz, I would go for India as origin.

Yes Marius. I agree.

The bird heads are very similar in style to the bird heads found on the crossbars of some Indian spears.


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