Is it a Tajong?
 

Hello All,
just finised on e-bay: http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll...m=390038072474

I've never seen a blade like this by a Tajong keris so I am a little bit confused what I buy there. I am very interested what you think about and if you think that it is all old and original.
Here the pictures from the seller.
Thank's in advance,
sajen

Ah, a monstrosity... kill it!!! :p

Hello BluErf,
hope you kidding. I really don't know about Tajong keris. I see that the selut is a very nice work and also think that the blade is old.
sajen

I agree that the pendokok is very interesting, but the hilt looks late 20th century and the carving looks non-traditional to me.
I couldn't tell you if the blade is at all old, but it doesn't seem to have much finesse. The ricikan looks pretty stiff and not quite right. Still, it is a bit unlike anything i have seen before in some ways. It looks something like a skilled foreigner's attempt at a keris. I don't think it would be fair to call this a proper Tajong. :shrug:

Sorry but this is not the tajong (as we know from northern Malaysia or southern Thailand). All is not the right form, the blade is recently made not by a pandai (empu).

Thank's for the open words from you! So I've paid a lot of money for a nicely worked selut. :eek: :eek: :eek:
Of course I've seen that the hilt isn't a fine work but have thought it's a simple form of a Tajong hilt. Badly paid apprentice's premium.
sajen

Don't worry Sajen, i think we all have at least one such learning lesson in all our collections somewhere. ;) :)

Sajen

I was one of the low ball bidders on that piece and it is an interesting piece but as stated above the hilt was recent looking and the blade was of questionable quality. Was surprized it went for that final price.

Thank you for your mail,
it seems that I am not the only one who have not a good knowledge about Tajong keris so it goes for a price like this. :D I ask the seller if he can make a second change offer to the next two bidders and I pay him the different. He agree and I have to wait now two days. :shrug:
sajen

I've spent a lot of time looking at the pics of this keris.

I will preface my remarks by putting it right up front that I am no expert on tajong style keris. Yes, I own a few, some old, some more recent, but I am certainly no expert.

However, if I look carefully at this keris, what I can see is this:-

the blade shows grain, and a surface that does not appear to be artificially aged; the ada-ada is the same style as a tajong, the other ricikan look as if they have been done from memory, without a clear guide; the waves are inconsistent. I feel that this blade was made by a smith, rather than by a pandai keris. In other words, to me it looks like the product of a fairly unskilled person,possibly working in a rural area, working to the limit of his ability.

the handle shows uneven patina and open grain, and probably some wear; I do not think that this handle is anywhere near recent---always depending on what we mean by "recent".

the scabbard is worn and heavily patinated; from what I can see in the photos, it has age.

the pendongkok is well crafted, and a nice thing.

My assessment of this keris is that it does have some age, but that it is a not a high quality production, and is non-typical.

As such, and bearing in mind the problems of buying from photos, I don't really think that the price paid is too extreme yes, certainly I would not have gambled on it, principally because it obviously lacks quality, and I do not buy for rareity, but for quality.

But I don't think I can go along with the general feeling of condemnation of this keris.

Yes, I agree the piece has some age, and the price is not outrageously high. Real good old tajongs are very rare these days, and can cost a lot more than the price that went for this specimen here.

Just to share what a competently made tajong shd look like. Blade-wise, just imagine any decent pandai saras blade (I didn't take pictures of the blade).

One thing - the pendoko is not exactly appropriate; I had since changed it to a tajong-type pendoko a few years back, but I have not taken new pictures.

Hello Mr. Maisey,

thank you for the elaborate comment. Now I will feel better when the second high bidder don't take the second change offer. Of course I've seen that it isn't a high class Tajong, the carving of the handle is to crude for this. It have been my thought that it is a simple form of a Tajong and like you guess manufactured in a rural area. Since I don't have a Tajong until now it will be a placeholder until I can get a better one.
Tank's again ang regards,
sajen

BluErf,

very nice example. Hope that I will own one like this one day.
sajen

You're welcome, Sajen.

When we look at a keris, or at one of the components of a keris, it is always best to look at both these things piece by piece. Don't just look at the keris as a whole, but look at each part of it, and when you get to the individual parts, look at the sections and characteristics of the parts.

And always bear in mind that photos can and do lie.

I think that this all brings me to the question of what exactly describes a proper tajong? Is it merely the name of the dress form or does it also describe the blade as well? I have never seen a tajong with a blade like this. Does this mean this is not a tajong? If it is merely a name for the dress form regardless of the type of blade within then i think we must approach the original question from an examination of just the dress. In my limited scope in the understanding of tajong hilts i look at this hilt and it doesn't look quite right to me. That is to say that the eyes don't seem to be in the right place and the carved patterns don't look particularly like what i have seen on other hilts. So i wonder, is there something that would be considered to be like a "pakem" for the design of these hilts? Does this hilt meet the standards for that "pakem" if such a guideline exists? If not, is it still a tajong?
I do not mean any of these questions to be interpreted as a general condemnation of this keris as Alan suggests. I am merely approaching the original question, "Is this a tajong?". Even if it is not i don't believe that that necessarily means it was not worth the money you paid for it. :shrug: :)

David, I do not know if it can be called a tajong or not. I do not know exactly what a tajong is,or what this word denotes or means, and although I have collected keris for a very long time, I had never come across the word "tajong" until a few years ago when I saw it mentioned on this site.

The original question was :- is it a tajong?

My answer is that I do not know.

But I do think it has a bit of age, I do think that it has some characteristics that also belong to the type of keris that is called a tajong, and I do think that it is a less than elegant production.

To me, this is an interesting keris. Purists in the field of tajongery may well disallow it membership of the group, just as I and some others would disallow some village Javanese keris recognition as legitimate Javanese keris.

But this is coming back to that "name game" that we are all so familiar with.

In my book, names do not mean a hell of a lot:- you accept and appraise something for what it is, not because you can hang some name or other on it.
Yeah, OK, I know I'm the odd man out, but if something has quality I really don't care what it is called, and if something lacks quality, I care even less.

By any measure this keris is interesting, simply because it is an oddity.

PS:-

http://www.kerisarchipelago.150m.com/webpage/Tajong.htm

"Tajongery" :D That's very funny Alan.
Obviously i am with you in the i don't know or the i am just not sure category. :) It has always seemed to me that the name "tajong" mostly relates to the dress and even more specifically to the hilt form, but maybe some of our friends on the Peninsula can verify this.
Thanks for the link to Dave's site. I had lost track of it and have been looking for the link ever since this thread first appeared.
I do agree that this keris is never-the-less interesting.

Actually, this tajong, though crude, has all the essential features of a tajong, right down to the crown, the garuda mungkur on top of the head, the swirl motifs on the side of the head, the beard, the eye lashes, and stylized arms in front of the body. So it is tajong. :)

Thanks Kai Wee, that's part of what i wanted to know. Now, is it your opinion that the term tajong merely refers to the hilt, or is the rest of the dress as specific? Is there more than one blade form that is acceptable in tajong dress? Can you tell from the features of this tajong hilt approximately how old it is?

The term tajong can refer to the hilt or the keris as a whole. But as a whole keris, the sheath form needs to be that as shown in both specimens in this thread. Any other sheaths would be inappropriate (sometimes, we see tajong hilts plonked onto sampir tebeng, i.e. the trapezoid sheath type, which is inappropriate). The blade is usually a pandai saras or a carita and shd be proportionate in length to the overall sheath and hilt. The overall aesthetics of a tajong keris needs to be 'long and lanky'. Short stumpy ones don't look right.

I can't tell how old the tajong is.

Can anybody say what the word "tajong" means, and what language it is from?

And while we're at it, how about coteng? Language? Meaning?

Hullo Alan,

My guess is that the word has Sanskrit roots.
Given the interchangeablity of 'o' with 'oe' and 'g' with 'k' within the archipelago, it comes from the word 'tajoeg/tajog', meaning flower of gold adorning the head.
I don't know anything about the Djawa Koena language, but it should have similarities with Soenda Koena.
So, in Djawa Koena, one may find the words (Latinised, of course) "akaris
alandejan gading inoekir tajoeng(or tajong)", referring to the carved ivory keris hilt.

Best,

Good guess Amuk.

It did not occur to me that we might have been looking at Old Javanese transplanted to another place.

Old Javanese has associations with Sanscrit, through Kawi, the literary and religious language of old Jawa.

In Old Javanese we have "tajun" with the "n" as a velar, which gives it an "ng" sound, so you could read tajun as tajung.

Tajun has a keris association :- "akris alandeyan gadin inukir tajun" (lit:- wearing a keris, with a hilt of elephant ivory carved as a tajung) (?Sudamala),and Zoetmulder speculates on an association between tajun and tajug:- a golden flower ornament for the head.

So, it looks as if maybe originally a keris tajung was a keris with a hilt ornamented in similar fashion to that of the tajug, a golden flower head adornment.

If this is so, then it has now become simply a name of this particular type of keris, which means that we cannot use an alternate meaning of the word to give any guidance to what a keris tajong is and is not. However, perhaps originally it referred only to a keris with a particular form of handle.

PS---I just noticed we used the same Old Javanese quote, but you have used pre-1972 spelling; I lifted mine from Zoetmulder.

First off all thank's to all for the informative discussion about this keris.

Yes, photos can lie, this is very true. Received the keris two weeks ago, sheat and handle seems recent and from very poor wood and on what way ever patinated, the only nice at this keris is the pendongkok.
The blade have maybe some age.

sajen

Another Resurrection


Having acquired a Panjang which came with a Tajong hilt I am now looking to acquire informations about Tajongs.

I too am somewhat confused from what I see for sale as a Tajong.

Some show only a Tajong hilt mounted on krises which could be Bugis or I found even one were a Yogyakarta keris has a Tajong hilt (not unlike My Panjang which came with such an hilt ).

Aside from what the pendongkok should look like and the hilt is there any typical characteristic of the blade?

Perhaps the answer is contained in this post.


http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showpo...6&postcount=11



"...Hi Jeff,

Your tajong hilts are the real stuff. The blades you have shown in the 2 links above are not the normal type of blade normally associated as tajongs. The most common forms are the straight "pandai saras" blade form, followed by the wavy "pandai saras" blade form and the "carita" blade form, in approximately similar rarity. Please note that the use of the term "carita" (pronounced "cher-rita") is not the same as the Javanese context. "Carita" in the Malay keris world refers to blades with shallow fullers running nearly the full length of the blade. If the fullers had been deeper, they would be called "melela". Again "melala" here is different from the "melela" used in the Javanese context, which is often used to describe "besi melela", or metal without visible pamor patterns. I am not good with Javanese kerises, so I would defer the explanations on these to the other members who are more knowledgeable in Javanese kerises.

Anyway, the 3 common keris forms for tajongs are attached below. Please ignore the hilts, as these hilts (of the jawa demam form) can also be appropriately paired with such blades, but then of course, the keris would not be called a tajong. There are other Malay keris forms found on tajongs, but would be the exception, rather than the rule.

Kerises and keris parts travel in the archipelago. This exchange of parts is also what fuels the exchange of aesthetics and forms, contributing to the variation of keris blades and keris dress/hilt forms, and they also cause mis-matched kerises to turn up all the time. And of course, we cannot discount dealers and collectors who swap hilts and blades around for all sorts of reasons, even if they don't really conform to the archetypal forms. I'm afraid your question would not be easily answered. You have to learn from good books, good teachers, and from handling as many kerises as you can, and that is a long hard but fun road.

A proper tajong - hilt, sheath and blade - is illustrated in the 4th and 5th pic. Arguably, the defining characteristics of a tajong are the hilt and the sheath. Any other types of hilts and sheaths would make it hard for us to call the resulting keris a proper tajong. Note that Northern Malay aesthetics dictates that the sheath must be long and lanky, with the sheath stem much longer than the blade. I have seen some people (I refuse to call them "collectors") shorten the stem so that it is just slightly longer than the blade. This was because they liked the keris that way. But in my opinion, that is just destroying the original aesthetics of the tajong keris, not to mention, ruining a perfectly good antique sheath....."



and these are the pics from that post (linking those here shouldn't be a problem since they are on the forum vaults)

Yep, these are typical tajong blades! ;)

Puh, you remembered me for a bad buy! :D:D

Regards,
Detlef

well the blades are very nice