Ethnographic Arms & Armour

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-   -   Half of a Morion (http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showthread.php?t=26847)

AHorsa 31st March 2021 10:38 AM

Half of a Morion
 
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Dear all,

I got this half of a Morion together with the Cabasset from my other thread. My expectations are low, especially as it weights just 495g... But you might know better if this is a copy or a real piece.

Any opinion apreciated.

Thanks and kind regards
Andreas

AHorsa 31st March 2021 10:41 AM

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more images...

AHorsa 31st March 2021 12:23 PM

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Having some more looks at it I just found a small area of delamination (attached image) and that the thickness of the material varies at the edges. A cause to be a bit more optimistic? :)

fernando 31st March 2021 12:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AHorsa
Dear all,

I got this half of a Morion together with the Cabasset from my other thread. My expectations are low, especially as it weights just 495g... But you might know better if this is a copy or a real piece.

Any opinion apreciated.

Thanks and kind regards
Andreas

Looks like the real thing ... or 'half' of it ;) .

CSinTX 31st March 2021 01:48 PM

Looks good to me.

ulfberth 31st March 2021 04:01 PM

I agree with Fernando and Casey , its an original no doubth !

Lansquenet59 31st March 2021 06:15 PM

Yes original, just have found the other half ... :D

fernando 31st March 2021 06:25 PM

Rigoleur :rolleyes: .

AHorsa 31st March 2021 09:31 PM

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Gentlemen, thank you so much for your comments. I am really happy to hear that. The helmet was covert with some varnish when I got it, looking quite artificial. And then the light weight.
I just cleaned the surface rust from the "white" parts. By the way: does anyone know the meaning of the fleur de lis on those "black and white" morions?

Kind regards
Andreas

Elmereya 31st March 2021 10:17 PM

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good afternoon, probably Germany late 16th century.
with respect..
(as an example, photo from 1stdibs.com)

Elmereya 31st March 2021 10:20 PM

and they were most likely painted with black paint in later times

Jim McDougall 1st April 2021 12:07 AM

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Munich town Guard c. 1600

AHorsa 1st April 2021 07:27 AM

Thank you for the further replies. Yes, this type is described as German about 1580. I doubt that all of this helmets can be attributed to the Munich town guard, as they appear pretty often. But it could be an interesting hint that they are meybe of south German origin.

CSinTX 1st April 2021 02:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AHorsa
Thank you for the further replies. Yes, this type is described as German about 1580. I doubt that all of this helmets can be attributed to the Munich town guard, as they appear pretty often. But it could be an interesting hint that they are meybe of south German origin.

I've often wondered their true source. Seems every auction has a few of them. There must have been a huge number of them made.

Jim McDougall 1st April 2021 02:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AHorsa
Thank you for the further replies. Yes, this type is described as German about 1580. I doubt that all of this helmets can be attributed to the Munich town guard, as they appear pretty often. But it could be an interesting hint that they are meybe of south German origin.

As noted, these seem to be pretty much a constant in auctions as far as these combed morions go, and have been for some time. Often they appear as an example in discussions of the use of the fluer de lis to indicate that this symbol was far from exclusively French. As a well known center for arms and armor, I wonder if these became a noted style which supplied other units in other 'town guard' activity, thus the apparent volume of these helmets.

AHorsa 1st April 2021 04:00 PM

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It would be interesting to see some contemporary images/engravings of that time showing a soldier or a guard wearing such a black and whtie morion or at least a plane morion. As they survived in such high numbers, there must be some. But I´ve never seen one. Does anyone of you? The only image I know is this one from 1572 showing some soldier wearing helmets that could be (abstracted) morions (next to the trunks and in the background).

Kind regards
Andreas

fernando 1st April 2021 04:02 PM

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I have checked a few (auction) sources and in one of them a half dozen comb morrions with different embossed patterns were labeled Munich Town Guard; this speaks for itself.
There must be out there some honest reference to the appearing of the "black & white' + 'fleur de lis" craze. In fact they are "more than their mothers"; i even saw one in a local auctioner; one i feared for its authenticity.
But one thing we know; the comb morrion originates from Spain and, in context, was extended to the Portuguese.
Here are two nice XVII century Benin bronzes depicting armoured Portuguese soldiers wearing morrions. Apparently without a comb, though.

.

AHorsa 1st April 2021 04:23 PM

What a great find, Fernando! Those figures really depict history

fernando 1st April 2021 04:50 PM

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Cristovão Colombo arriving in the New World, an engraving from the XVI century.


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fernando 1st April 2021 04:58 PM

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Francisco Coronado in his expedition from what is now Mexico to present-day Kansas, in 1540-1542.


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AHorsa 1st April 2021 06:37 PM

Thanks for posting the images. Is the second one old or modern?

fernando 1st April 2021 07:46 PM

That one i woldn't know; certainly not from thr period.
(Courtesy The New York Pubic Library)

Jim McDougall 2nd April 2021 01:34 AM

The 'conquistadors' have been a topic that have intrigued me forever it seems, and some of my favorite art has been with these figures in subject.

Years ago of course my impression was that ALL the Spanish in the New World were conquistadors, and of course they all wore morions and steel cuirasses.
In recent years I was surprised that that was not the case, and that the familiar 'combed' morions were not worn in the early conquests of Mexico and Peru by Cortez and Pizarro (first quarter 16th c). In a reference by Walter Karcheski ("Arms and Armor of the Conquistadors", 1990) he notes these were not worn until later in the century and that many of those worn by the conquistadors were actually produced in Italy. Actually many of the Spanish arms and armor had Italian origin due to the provincial connections.
Also, the members of these expeditions were not not necessarily soldiers, but adventurers, ex soldiers and individuals seeking fortunes. As such, many, if not most were self equipped, using all manner of arms and armor, often obsolete and hastily obtained from many sources. There was little uniformity and the armor breast plates were likely minimally present, with mail more common. The helmets were of all manner, mostly cabassets with the morions more known among officers and well heeled members.

It seems that the North Italian arms producing centers had significant influence and contact with not only Spain, but German armourers to the North, notably Munich as one. While the morion did evolve in Spain earlier with the combed peak added to the plainer 'cabasset', the style did catch on in Italy (the Swiss guards at the Vatican) it does seem that the 'Munich' examples would follow suit.

As Fernando has noted, these morions with the fluer de lys which are typically designated 'Munich town guard' are but one of numerous motif and decorations on these helmets .
* the fluer de lys is said to represent the Virgin Mary, who whom the Munich Town Guard were dedicated.

I believe that numbers of these were perhaps among the holdings in the Bavarian National Museum which were de-accessed early in the century and Dr. Hans Stocklein was somehow involved in cataloging. From there it seems there were examples of the helmets in the John Severence collection that went to the Cleveland museum of art.
These may be possible sources for the Munich Town Guard attribution.
It seems there is a type of sword with rapier style hilt also specified to Munich town guard, so this appellation may have been similarly applied, as other swords of the type are known without the connection.

AHorsa 2nd April 2021 10:03 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jim McDougall
the fluer de lys is said to represent the Virgin Mary, who whom the Munich Town Guard were dedicated.

I believe that numbers of these were perhaps among the holdings in the Bavarian National Museum which were de-accessed early in the century and Dr. Hans Stocklein was somehow involved in cataloging. From there it seems there were examples of the helmets in the John Severence collection that went to the Cleveland museum of art.
These may be possible sources for the Munich Town Guard attribution.
It seems there is a type of sword with rapier style hilt also specified to Munich town guard, so this appellation may have been similarly applied, as other swords of the type are known without the connection.

Great remarks, Jim! Thanks for this! This may explain the appearance of the fleur de lis on those helmets - seeking for the protection of the Virgin Mary. I think I´ve also seen praises of Virgin Mary on sword blades.

ulfberth 2nd April 2021 10:37 AM

[QUOTE=Jim McDougall]The 'conquistadors' have been a topic that have intrigued me forever it seems, and some of my favorite art has been with these figures in subject.

Years ago of course my impression was that ALL the Spanish in the New World were conquistadors, and of course they all wore morions and steel cuirasses.
In recent years I was surprised that that was not the case, and that the familiar 'combed' morions were not worn in the early conquests of Mexico and Peru by Cortez and Pizarro (first quarter 16th c). In a reference by Walter Karcheski ("Arms and Armor of the Conquistadors", 1990) he notes these were not worn until later in the century and that many of those worn by the conquistadors were actually produced in Italy. Actually many of the Spanish arms and armor had Italian origin due to the provincial connections.
Also, the members of these expeditions were not not necessarily soldiers, but adventurers, ex soldiers and individuals seeking fortunes. As such, many, if not most were self equipped, using all manner of arms and armor, often obsolete and hastily obtained from many sources. There was little uniformity and the armor breast plates were likely minimally present, with mail more common. The helmets were of all manner, mostly cabassets with the morions more known among officers and well heeled members.

Hi Jim, you have just inspired me to see " conquest of paradise " again !
kind regards
Ulfberth

Jim McDougall 2nd April 2021 12:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AHorsa
Great remarks, Jim! Thanks for this! This may explain the appearance of the fleur de lis on those helmets - seeking for the protection of the Virgin Mary. I think I´ve also seen praises of Virgin Mary on sword blades.

You bet! glad I could help.
It has often been held that the fluer de lys was a French device, however, with its religious and other connotations it has been known in numerous other contexts.

Jim McDougall 2nd April 2021 12:30 PM

[QUOTE=ulfberth]
Quote:

Originally Posted by Jim McDougall
The 'conquistadors' have been a topic that have intrigued me forever it seems, and some of my favorite art has been with these figures in subject.

Years ago of course my impression was that ALL the Spanish in the New World were conquistadors, and of course they all wore morions and steel cuirasses.
In recent years I was surprised that that was not the case, and that the familiar 'combed' morions were not worn in the early conquests of Mexico and Peru by Cortez and Pizarro (first quarter 16th c). In a reference by Walter Karcheski ("Arms and Armor of the Conquistadors", 1990) he notes these were not worn until later in the century and that many of those worn by the conquistadors were actually produced in Italy. Actually many of the Spanish arms and armor had Italian origin due to the provincial connections.
Also, the members of these expeditions were not not necessarily soldiers, but adventurers, ex soldiers and individuals seeking fortunes. As such, many, if not most were self equipped, using all manner of arms and armor, often obsolete and hastily obtained from many sources. There was little uniformity and the armor breast plates were likely minimally present, with mail more common. The helmets were of all manner, mostly cabassets with the morions more known among officers and well heeled members.

Hi Jim, you have just inspired me to see " conquest of paradise " again !
kind regards
Ulfberth


It is the 'romantic' historian in us!!! The arms and armor we study are the forces that take us back into these amazing times! :) Bon voyage!!!!

fernando 2nd April 2021 02:47 PM

Going semantics ?...
 
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Conquistador (conqueror) would be the term used to refer to Spanish and Portuguese soldiers, explorers and adventurers who ventured through the Americas and the Pacific Ocean, on the shores of Asia, in regions controlled by the Portuguese and Spanish between the 15th, 16th, 17th and 18th centuries. We know of a Portuguese adventurer, Salvador Ribeiro de Sousa, who managed to be the King of Pegu (Suthern Birmania = Myanmar) in the XVI century. On the other hand, it is rather acceptable that contemporay civilan adventurers (often mercenaries) would wear whatever armout they got hold of.
As for the date Karcheski says that morrions showed up by later in the century, within my illiteracy, i dare say he commits an imprecision. The morrion was born in Castille by early XVI century. Hernando de Soto and Coronado (1540's) are admitted to have supplied them to their infants; as we can also see in a Pizarros's depiction, kept in la Universidad de Chile. Also it would be hard to believe that, a painting by Juan Lepiani, kept in Museo Nacional de Arqueología, Antropología e Historia del Perú, would have Pizarro and the boys wearing the wrong head protection.
Also in a work by Lyliane and Fred Funcken we may see comb (crest) morrions dated 1530 whereas the half comb style would date beg. XVII century.
It is no wonder that these helmets, bearing an appealing look, soon spread all over Europe, becoming a fashionable item for Munich guards, Landsknechts and even the Vatican ... this one even up to nowadays. I wouldn't be surprised that this helmet comb (crest) was thought by many to be an embelishment detail and not conceived to reinforce it.

A random note:
Afonso de Albuquerque (1453-1515) one of he greatest Portuguese (as called) conquistadores, a noble of pure Portuguese lineage, had as his family coat of arms, a shield with four fleures de lys.



.

Jim McDougall 2nd April 2021 10:13 PM

As always, Fernando I look forward to your well placed and referenced responses to my ramblings. The heading semantics is of course right in line here, as terms and perceptions are key in what we know of the conquistadors and their appearance and equipment.

Interestingly, the term 'conquistador' was not used to describe these forces of exploration and conquest until the 19th century. Still it describes them resoundingly as we constantly learn more of them and their 'adventures'.

Regarding semantics, I think the terms cabasset (cabacete) and morion are at times interchanged, and these helmets are of often remarkably subtle comparison. ...the 'comb' being the primary feature of attention.

It would be difficult to determine exactly what year the peak of the cabasset was reduced slightly, and the height achieved with the 'comb' along the center of the helmet. I would not dispute Castilian origin, and the burgonet versions of the armet closed helmets also had combs on many versions.

The question is just when did the combed morion with boat shell brim become well known, used, by the conquistadors. ...the term morion is typically used for this form. However, there are cabacete also noted as 'morion', so here is the semantics issue.

In "The Conquistadors" (Terence Wise, Osprey, 1980, p.36, B2) a Spanish arquebusier c. 1520-40 is shown wearing a comb morion with boat shell, with comment this was the TYPICAL Spanish helmet.
However, it is noted , the COMB became more PROMINENT after 1530.

In the same plate, a swordsman of this period is wearing a burgonet, a type of more enclosed helmet but without visor etc. with notes these and light cavalrymen wore these and NOT the morion as often supposed.
The pikemen in the plate wear a 'pear stalk' cabasset with the boat shell c. 1540.

In this reference it is noted (p.35) that with an illustration of a Spanish knight c. 1500-40, he is wearing blackened armor to protect from weather, "...MOST of the captains and gentlemen amongst the conquistadors wore such armor, although some later abandoned all except the helmet in favor of the lighter Indian armor".
Here I would note, the helmet they wore was closed, with armet, vizor and bevor.



In other references, and "European Arms & Armor" (C.H.Ashdown, 1995), p.265, in the transition period (1500-52) one of the salient features of armor was the general use of a close helmet. As noted, ranking figures in the early 16th c. favored the closed helmet, and scholars I have spoken with have noted the favor of variations of these helmets with bevor etc. in the early period of colonization.

While I would dread contesting the veracity of a painting depicting these larger than life figures of history wearing incorrect armor or costume, it seems such license is well known in historically themed art. Here in the US, the topic of Custer and his 'last stand' is terribly misrepresented in many art pieces. Many, possibly even most, events such as cavalry charges etc. are little like the actual event, and often painted many years after the fact.

Looking through "Spanish Arms & Armor" (Calvert, 1908) there are many variations of burgonet, 'morion' and cabacete from late 15th into 16th c. which illustrate the scope of styles in use in these times. I believe what Mr. Karcheski was referring to was that the 'combed morion' did not come into popular use until after c. 1530s, and then in the rather inconsistent use prevalent in these assembled forces in Spain's New World.

Philip 3rd April 2021 05:56 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by fernando

A random note:
Afonso de Albuquerque (1453-1515) one of he greatest Portuguese (as called) conquistadores, a noble of pure Portuguese lineage, had as his family coat of arms, a shield with four fleures de lys.

.

And doesn't the cross of the Order of Aviz have a fleur-de-lys at the end of each arm?

fernando 3rd April 2021 12:35 PM

More than a coincidEnce ...
 
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Quote:

Originally Posted by Philip
And doesn't the cross of the Order of Aviz have a fleur-de-lys at the end of each arm?

Yes indeed, Filipe.
Remember this Order was implemented by Dom Afonso Henriques first King of Portugal in the XII century and he descended from the French House of Burgundy, whose coat of arms featured mutiple fleur de lys.


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fernando 3rd April 2021 04:26 PM

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Cabasset, a Catalan term here attributed due to its resemblance with a 'cabás' (basket, container). Capacete in both Castillian and Portuguese.
Morrion, a Castillian term derived from 'morra', the top of the head. Morrião in Portuguese.
Looks like disputing which one appeared first is like the egg and the hen dillemma.
If artistic licence ougth to be considered within the universe of author's imagination, its degree may be subject of various factors, from the artist's reliabilty and whether he/she never saw and have the minimum glue of how it has been, to someone who witnessed the subject and even took part in it ... and of course also of his/her artistic gifts.
From what i may figure, forces acting in the same timeline don't necessarily use equipment of the same version or generation; we may have 'X' wearing cabassets in one whereabouts, 'Y' wearing morrions in another episode and 'Z' wearing burgonets, whatever, in yet a different part of the world ... all in the same time period. As there may have been those who pick the newly invented stuff much earlier than others and those who stick to the same gear on an infinite basis.
If Andreas doesn' mind for so much side topic, i would here show a couple of images.
- A detail of the tragic battle of Alcacer Quibir (Ksar-el-Kebir) 1578. The author was Miguel de Andrada, woo took part in this battle, becoming prisoner and later liberated. Here the helmets, some with a plausible look, don't seem to be cabassets.
- Neither is the helmet of this Castillian armour of the second half XV century; which is not surprising due to is earlier age ... although from this one we may realize 'what was coming'.
- Then we have a mural in the palace of Marquis de Santa Cruz, in Ciudad Real, Spain. All those characters are identified as personalities who took part in epic Spanish battles, Lepanto (1571), Ourã (1575), Invincible Armada (1588). Taking apart the fantasy of the interpretation, it is interesting to see the guys wearing a sequence of cabassets and morrions.
- And last, but not least ;) , a Portuguese morrion, XVI-XVII century, with the Cross of Christ and the (King Dom Manuel symbol of choice) Armilar sphere in both sides (collection R. Daehnhardt).

You guys stay safe.


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Jim McDougall 4th April 2021 02:19 AM

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The puzzle of the combed morion and just when it became widely known in the New World has proven a bit of a conundrum, and while I do not want to digress too much, it does seem a salient topic as we discuss the example of the OP.

As the late Walter Karcheski, as I noted, described in his monograph on the arms of the Conquistadors (1990), he commented that the 'combed morion' was not used in the early conquests by Pizarro in Peru and Cortes in Mexico. However it became popularized in the years later with other expeditions.
While we know that the design originated in Castile, its inception into wide use seems unclear, but after 1530s beyond it did have a degree of presence in the expeditions that carried on.

I found a useful reference which I used when researching a Spanish leather armor from New Mexico (c.1690s) a number of years ago. It was interesting to learn just how much the early Spaniards used leather and textile armor in these frontiers.
It is "Spanish Arms & Armor in the Southwest" F.S.Curtis, New Mexico Historical Review, Vol. II, #2, 1927.
p.108:
In discussing Coronado (explorations 1540-42) and Onate (1598-1626) the author reveals that , "...of Coronados cavalry, Mota Padilla is our clearest informant, telling us that they were armed with 'lances, swords, and other hand held weapons and some with coats of mail, SALADES and BEAVORS, some of iron and some of RAWHIDE".

further:
"...Coronado himself and his chief officers probably went into battle clothed in full armor which covered them from sole to crown, discarding the less important portions while on the march and at times protecting themselves with cloaks from the sun shining on their steel cuirasses. The battle helmet was probably used very little except when action was imminent".

In other sources it is noted that the closed helmet was used by officers and ranking individuals, it was often replaced by a broad hat that was secretly reinforced by steel bands.

On. p.109, it is reasserted that the SALADE type helmet was a certainty.

These descriptions in this reference are designated as 1) First period, exploration and conquest, presumably 1540-1604+
2) Second period, Revolution and reconquest, 1680+
3) final period 1693-1821.

The plates attached are:
4: (1) ARMET, closed helmet, as used by officers
(2) cavalry SALADE with beavor
* the beavor is covering of lower part of face.
(3) MORION.....here the word is used to describe what is clearly
the pear shaped cabasset
(4)pikemans helmet (pot)
(5) the broad brimmed hat reinforced.

Plate 5, has an armor with a combed morion, which seems presumably to be of the Onate period.

Plate 7 (p123) describes the 2nd period, which is well into the 17th century until 1680s which included the reconquest against Indian revolts. This was the period of the leather armor I was researching (Pueblo Revolt, Santa Fe, 1680s-90s)
Here the combed morion is seen, and is noted "...of somewhat more effective design than previously shown, used by both mounted and dismounted troops". It is noted that these as with other elements and arms, had continued use from earlier times.

I attached pictures (art work) of Cortes, wearing close helmet as well as Pizarro with same.
Note illustration of Coronado wearing morion, a clear case of license.

These morions (aside from highly decorated examples) were for rank and file in the last half of the 16th c. so would seem unlikely for high ranking figures.

Philip 4th April 2021 06:03 AM

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Quote:

Originally Posted by Jim McDougall
.

I found a useful reference which I used when researching a Spanish leather armor from New Mexico (c.1690s) a number of years ago. It was interesting to learn just how much the early Spaniards used leather and textile armor in these frontiers.


further:
"...Coronado himself and his chief officers probably went into battle clothed in full armor which covered them from sole to crown, discarding the less important portions while on the march and at times protecting themselves with cloaks from the sun shining on their steel cuirasses. The battle helmet was probably used very little except when action was imminent".

.

Hi, Jim
Muchas gracias for the extensive contextual info with specific references!

You might be interested in these two examples of Spanish brigandine cuirasses, of leather with small overlapping steel plates riveted on the inner side, both of the 16th cent. This type of armor dates from the early Middle Ages and was used throughout Europe, as evidenced in works of art. Due to its perishable nature, surviving complete armors mostly date from the final century of their popularity, the 1500s, and most of these are Italian or Spanish. Most of the Italian examples are constructed on a heavy textile shell with a velvet or silk exterior exposing the rivets; leather seems to be the preferred medium on existing Spanish examples.

Two variations are illustrated here. The one covered whose breast is completely armored is in the Real Armería de Madrid, inv. no. C10. The other, especially rare form, is a thick elk skin vest with brigandine sleeves and tassets. In battle, a steel breastplate could be strapped over the exposed leather portion to provide full protection for chest and back; with it removed the garment was much more comfortable to wear in hot weather while on the march. This armor, ex-Sigmaringen Museum, was sold by Sothebys (London) on 29 July 1930 (lot 136).

fernando 4th April 2021 02:17 PM

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Interesting ... and plausible, the habit of discarding armour components while on the march under weather elements; Portuguese are reported to have followed same procedures in India and whereabouts, according to period chroniclers.
Note that Mota Padilla, being F.S.Curtis clearest informant, was born in 1688 and his work was written in 1741, by the time Coronado was already lying under earth for some significant time; this speaking of artist's feedom.
Also interesting to recall that armour protection had its first composition in leather materials; we just have to remember that the term 'cuirass' comes from the Latin CORIACĔA = couro, cuero (leather); from where we had the later "cuera", a piece of armour that Jim is so fond of ;).
But if XV-XVI century knights had to discard iron armour components, earlier dudes had no better luck, as those made of leather had to be built with double layers and stuffed with padding, which often had them infestated with fleas, due to inevitable sweat.
The salad, speaking of it, a term originated from celada, originated from Latin cassis, caelata, chilezed helmet, Italian celada, could well resemble the artist's freedom used in the previous pictures i posted, as incharacteristic, depicted by early authors.
And last, speaking of silk and textiles armour components, and following Filipe's interests in Iberian stuff, i would show here the LOUDEL (gambeson) of King Dom João I 1455-1495).

I wish you all a happy Easter season :cool: .


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Jim McDougall 4th April 2021 03:00 PM

Philip, thank you so much for this information and photos on the brigandines and leathern armor!!!! I do recall reading of these in my quest for the elusive 'cuera' I was studying.
(yes Fernando...I AM very fond of.....leather!!! but not in a kinky way :))

The cuera I was studying was made in a very classic style with tassets etc. and had been found in storage unit in Arizona after reposing there for decades. It had come from a small private museum which closed, and legal disputes with estate had kept it entangled thus.

What was so unusual about this was that its form was nothing like the rawhide cuera typically worn by the 'soldados de cuera' who were the cavalry in the presidios of the Southwest frontiers into early 19thc.
Apparently this particular cuera was of a unique form (to Santa Fe, N.M.) made by Pueblo Indians under direction of Spanish during the revolts of 1690s.
As apparently no examples of cuera have survived (with the exception of one c.1770s found in Madrid; and one c.1820s in Smithsonian) the discovery of this one was a revelation.

The type was unknown to writers on Spanish arms and armor who wrote in latter 19th c. and into early 20th, as well as to Pierce Chamberlain ("Spanish Military Weapons in Colonial America 1700-1821", 1972) whom I knew and had great talks with years before the cuera study.

The reason it was unknown was that the only depiction of it was in a tryptych
painted c.1715 of a battle just prior where the Indian forces with the Spaniards were wearing these. They had been produced during the 1690s reconquest of Santa Fe by Pueblos using the cuir boulli process.
* the paintings were done by Pueblo's with survivors of the battle advising.

The paintings (on hides) were given to Jesuit priest, who sent them to his family in Switzerland during the expulsions of 1770s. There they remained until discovered and brought back to Santa Fe in late 1980s.
This is why this form was unknown......examples had disappeared, and the only record pictorially had been absent from America until AFTER the last reference on Spanish Colonial arms and armor was written (1972).

I know, quite off topic, but pertinent in a sense in that there is a notable dearth of accurate material concerning arms and armor used by the Spanish in the America's in early times.

Regarding Padilla being a credible informant, what was meant by Mr. Curtis was NOT that he was informed by him personally, but that he was relying on accounts/narratives by him that WERE compiled in the period by an observer who had first hand information. This is often done by writers investigating events, and even after the persons involved have long since passed. I would suppose that much as with art, writers employ a degree of 'license' as used by novelists. However, those who strive for accuracy are generally holding to as much corroborated evidence as possible. I believe this is what Mr. Curtis was trying to convey.

Fernando, as always, thank you so much for the great etymology on these terms!!! It is fascinating to have the genuine insights with your knowledge and resources, which give resounding perspective in these discussions.

fernando 4th April 2021 03:07 PM

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Oh ...i forgot to upload 'my' cuera setup. One exhibited in the Oporto Military Museum.


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Jim McDougall 4th April 2021 05:11 PM

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Thanks Fernando!
I guess that is in a sense a 'cuera', literally. While leather versions of armor, much evolved from brigandines clearly evolved in the America's early, even in the earliest explorations, these were widely varied, and fashioned from layers of various rawhides stitched together.

The 'buff' coats as seen here, were also in use in England and elsewhere in Europe in this same manner, often under a cuirass.
The 'cuera' I was seeking an example of, then at the request of a small museum, was the form illustrated in the attached photos. The leather example (front and back) was a typical form used through the 18th century in the North American Southwest frontiers. This is I believe the one held in Madrid.
The depiction of the mounted soldado is with a shorter jacket version c. 1820s of the type found in the Smithsonian.

It was during this search that the unusual example I ended up researching was discovered in Arizona. It is believed that it had ended up with Comanchero traders and filtered through trades, finally falling into the hands of a guy in Arizona who eventually built a private museum. It was in deplorable condition, collapsed, and painstakingly restored. What was unique about it was that it was of cuir boulli, rather than the rawhide type, and in a classical form.

The cuera seem to have evolved from these buff type liners which effectively buffered the mail, which was far more common than the steel cuirass.
With mail, it however quickly deteriorated without proper maintainance, and was terribly ineffective against arrows which spread and broke the rings, especially if corroded and brittle. Soon the mail was discarded, and the leather took over. It seems much the same in degree with some helmet forms.

Interestingly, I have seen morions made in 17th c Italy of leather.

fernando 4th April 2021 05:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jim McDougall
...The depiction of the mounted soldado is with a shorter jacket version c. 1820s of the type found in the Smithsonian...

I remember and took a photo of the picture of this guy with the quilted leather vest and a leather shield, in San José Mission, while in our visit to San Antonio, back in 2018. The (bilingual) caption mentions it dates it circa 1803.


Quote:

Originally Posted by Jim McDougall
... I have seen morions made in 17th c Italy of leather.

I once had the previlege to 'touch' a small pear cabasset made of leather, for a young owner; certainly someone of high lineage, judging by the looks of it; its skull had engravings and the rosettes had the shape of infant motifs. It still had kept in a little bag its interior textile lining, in a fragile condition. What an experience.

AHorsa 4th April 2021 06:54 PM

2 Attachment(s)
What an interesting discussion, gentlemen!
I just found this contemporary depiction of a soldier wearing a (comb)Morion in the thirty years war.

Kind regards
Andreas


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